«11 »
  • Post
  • Reply
LEZ BE FRIENDS
Oct 15, 2006

Merry fucking Christmas.

grover posted:

This was called "Fast-clic" which I can't find referenced anywhere else on the internet.

I have this stuff in my bathroom, and it looks wonderful.

This is awesome. I love seeing DIY threads... the house looks great!!

PainterofCrap
Oct 16, 2002

Hey bebe



grover posted:

I was going to just wrap them in white flashing for trim, when I happened upon hardiplank in the siding section- hardiplank is high-end concrete siding; it's quite literally concrete molded into a board, and ended up being absolutely PERFECT for this.

That's what I used to side my garage. I scored it with a carpet knife & broke it. wanted cedar shake, wife said no. I wanted cedar clapboard, the wife said too 'spensive. I swore I would never go with aluminum or vinyl, I hate that shit. Then we found Hardiboard. Lasts a hundred years.

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







PainterofCrap posted:

That's what I used to side my garage. I scored it with a carpet knife & broke it. wanted cedar shake, wife said no. I wanted cedar clapboard, the wife said too 'spensive. I swore I would never go with aluminum or vinyl, I hate that shit. Then we found Hardiboard. Lasts a hundred years.
I ruined a big patch of my vinyl siding breaking in the grill last week. Was cooking cheap 70% lean burgers (hey, 99 cents a lb!) and the grill was too close to the wall when all the grease caught fire; I learned the hard way that the new siding I bought is apparently much less heat resiliant than the older siding Now I have a big section that's all melted and warped to hell that I have to replace...

grover fucked around with this message at Apr 7, 2007 around 10:35

Martytoof
Feb 24, 2003

It's called a hassle, sweetheart..



grover posted:

Thanks I was starting to worry GBS was getting bored with me, since views have gone way down on these latest intermittant updates!

Not a chance, keep the updates coming! Finding this thread every month or so is definitely a treat.

AdamAntz
May 15, 2005
The One

Wow amazing work. I plan to DIY my future house when I marry and settle down. This is very educational.

Also I find it funny how you americans use wood to build your homes.

PainterofCrap
Oct 16, 2002

Hey bebe



grover posted:

I ruined a big patch of my vinyl siding breaking in the grill last week. Was cooking cheap 70% lean burgers (hey, 99 cents a lb!) and the grill was too close to the wall; I learned the hard way that the new siding I bought is apparently much less heat resiliant than the older siding Now I have a big section that's all melted and warped to hell that I have to replace...

You could claim that under your homeowner's insurance. If you push them the right way, they'll pay to re-side the entire house. How old is the siding? Is it faded?

AdamAntz posted:

Also I find it funny how you americans use wood to build your homes.

Yeah, well, lumber is stil relativly cheap here, 'cause we still have lots of open land & forests!

When I lived in Zurich a million years ago - even then, everything was poured reinforced concrete. Wood was restricted to styling treatment.

The rate we're going, we'll be following Europe's lead before long...

PainterofCrap fucked around with this message at Apr 6, 2007 around 23:36

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







PainterofCrap posted:

You could claim that under your homeowner's insurance. If you push them the right way, they'll pay to re-side the entire house. How old is the siding? Is it faded?
The siding is about 6 months old. I still have a box of it in the garage, so it's just a matter of taking an hour to patch it.

PainterofCrap posted:

Yeah, well, lumber is stil relativly cheap here, 'cause we still have lots of open land & forests!

When I lived in Zurich a million years ago - even then, everything was poured reinforced concrete. Wood was restricted to styling treatment.

The rate we're going, we'll be following Europe's lead before long...
Not only that, but the US forest industry had VERY far-sighted, and started planting new forests of fast-growing pines whenever they clearcut an area. We quite literally farm trees, and have a self-sustaining lumber industry. We're not running out of forests because we're growing them as fast as we use them!

One thing this HAS effected is the quality of lumber- since the trees are so fast growing, they tend to be weaker than the denser old-growth timbers and full of knots, but building codes have been modified to compensate. (Modern building code tables allow a lesser span on modern lumber than older codes- not because they're stricter, but because the lumber is weaker!) Engineered lumber products- plywood, strand-board, I-joists, LVL, etc- have really made an impact as well.

grover fucked around with this message at Apr 7, 2007 around 10:35

Rossy
Oct 25, 2004


Just read the part about your air conditioning. Im an Air Con engineer myself from England and noticed you're using R-22 gas.

I don't know what the rules and regulations are over the pond, but this gas is very harmful to the atmosphere and is being phased out over here to be completely phased out and illegal in a few years time. This is why every system i get to install comes with R-410a and R-407c gas nowadays.

Do you know why this isnt replicated over in America? Id be interested to know.

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







Rossy posted:

I don't know what the rules and regulations are over the pond, but this gas is very harmful to the atmosphere and is being phased out over here to be completely phased out and illegal in a few years time. This is why every system i get to install comes with R-410a and R-407c gas nowadays.
That sums up our laws, too. It's being quickly phased out, but R-22 is just so damned good at what it does! I appreciate that! Also, it was about $200 cheaper than an otherwise identical R-410a model, which made the choice easy.

Present law requires R-22 models be phased out, and no new models manufactured after 2010. Limited quantities of R-22 can be manufactured for repair/replenishment, but all production must cease by 2020. My other heat-pump is R-22 as well. So long as neither springs a leak, it will never be an issue; if it ever does, R-22 will cease being manufactured soon, but stockpiling from present manufacturers, reclamation & recycling will ensure replenishment R-22 is availible long to come. Honestly, that's 15 years down the road and I really doubt I'll have to worry about it.

grover fucked around with this message at Apr 7, 2007 around 12:13

simcole
Sep 13, 2003
PATHETIC STALKER

Very impressive thread. I've always wanted to learn the framing stage of a house, specifically how to connect to the concrete section. I know the basics of electrical and plumbing.

Elguapo
Jan 23, 2005


So you were able to do all the calc's and title 24 on the project yourself?

I work in house design and love to see people side step contractors. But not everyone is cut out to build their own addition. Ive had clients try this and succeed of course, but the people that fail almost always get reemed by the contractor they hire to clean up the mess.

Also, construction materials must be cheap over there. Here in southern California I'd advise my clients to expect to spend at least 150k for materials alone on a project that size. And a contractor would bid that project somewhere between 200-250$ a square foot.

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







simcole posted:

Very impressive thread. I've always wanted to learn the framing stage of a house, specifically how to connect to the concrete section. I know the basics of electrical and plumbing.
There are numerous ways- the easiest way is with anchor bolts. They're basically L shaped shanks of 1/2" rod that's threaded on the top. You set them in grout in the concrete block and bolt the sill-plate down to it. Depending on the circumstances, you may need more or less; I put them at 32" OC, but that's well exceeding code. Incidently, the concrete blocks are tied to the 8x24" thick concrete footing with rebar either set or epoxied into the concrete footing. Most of the rebar, I carefully measured, drilled and epoxied in after the footing was poured. For the shear walls on the front of the garage, I bent them into L shapes and tied the bottom of the rebar right into the main rebar reinforcement in the footer before we poured (for extra strength); they're the pieces sticking up from the blocks in the foreground. After this picture was taken, I knocked channels between the blocks in that front section, bent the rebar down into two interlocking C shapes, filled the whole thing with concrete grout, and set 18" long 5/8" anchor bolts in it.

Block wall, with anchor bolts in place, but before creating the shear-wall bond-beam

Here are some other methods:
http://www.strongtie.com/products/c...ASP-MAB-MA.html


- I used 3 MAB-15s on the 4.5x5.5" concrete post between my garage door and door into my garage, but just used anchor bolts everywhere else.


You can see the anchor bolts through the sill plate here. You can also see the MAB-15s.

Elguapo posted:

So you were able to do all the calc's and title 24 on the project yourself?
No title 24 here, and no engineering is required on a 1 or 2 family residence, providing it all is built to code. I did all my own calcs, though, for wind-loading, stresses, heat/cooling loads and the like. Most of the design was straight out of the code books or manufacturer spec for the engineered products.

But yes, if anything came up in the inspections I couldn't fix, my fall-back was to pass the PE exam and stamp it myself, lol...

grover fucked around with this message at Apr 7, 2007 around 22:38

chechnya
Dec 17, 2004

rebel

Wow great work Grover! I have to say, coming from an assistant superintendant from multi-family, i have to commend you on the quality of your work. Only of subcontractors did the work you did. You could totally start a business with your friend seeing as you have your first project for your portfolio.

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







chechnya posted:

Wow great work Grover! I have to say, coming from an assistant superintendant from multi-family, i have to commend you on the quality of your work. Only of subcontractors did the work you did. You could totally start a business with your friend seeing as you have your first project for your portfolio.
Well, now that I know how much work is involved, I never want to do anything on this scale again! Although, I might be persuaded to do kitchens, since the profit margins would be pretty high and I could do all the electrical and plumbing myself...

clockworx
Oct 15, 2005
The Internet Whore made me buy this account

Just out of curiosity, did you ever get your AC charged up and ready to go? I'm doing a gut-job rehab on a house, and was looking at doing some of the HVAC work myself (heat pump). I can either go partial and just install ductwork, or go full-blown and try to do it all myself. I found http://epatest.com which apparently lets you get a basic HVAC cert, or you can get their study kits and take a full-blown universal cert. Since it would be useful to have, I'm not afraid of studying and taking the test(s), but I wasn't sure about all the equipment needs to charge an HVAC system anyways.

Also, I've read that there has been some concerns about air quality when using ductboard. (fiberglass inhalation, etc.) Did this come up as a concern for you? We were looking into either bending the metal or seeing if there is some available flexible ductwork, as is used with the hi-velocity systems.

Any thoughts from the experience you've had?

clockworx fucked around with this message at Apr 11, 2007 around 10:38

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







clockworx posted:

Just out of curiosity, did you ever get your AC charged up and ready to go? I'm doing a gut-job rehab on a house, and was looking at doing some of the HVAC work myself (heat pump). I can either go partial and just install ductwork, or go full-blown and try to do it all myself. I found http://epatest.com which apparently lets you get a basic HVAC cert, or you can get their study kits and take a full-blown universal cert. Since it would be useful to have, I'm not afraid of studying and taking the test(s), but I wasn't sure about all the equipment needs to charge an HVAC system anyways.

Also, I've read that there has been some concerns about air quality when using ductboard. (fiberglass inhalation, etc.) Did this come up as a concern for you? We were looking into either bending the metal or seeing if there is some available flexible ductwork, as is used with the hi-velocity systems.

Any thoughts from the experience you've had?
I ended up hiring an HVAC guy to do my final hookup (copper and charging). My unit came with a charge sufficient for the evaporator, condensor and 15' of line. You'd need to have enough to fill your lines if they were larger, as well as a vacuum pump and charging/gauge set. I was thinking of taking the test, but I couldn't take the test as cheaply as I could just pay someone and get it done quickly and know it's done right- I enjoy DIY, but I'm in the end a realist, too Was nice to have a pro double-check the rest of my work, too!

I think the dangers of ductboard are overblown. Any fiberglass that's going to be blown loose is going to happen right at the onset and during testing & before you really move in- after that, there's really no difference, and the fiberglass matte is an excellent sound absorber, reducing duct noise transfer. If you're going to need high velocities, you'd really have to use metal, though. Fiberglass has a lot of duct loss.

Flex duct has higher duct loss than metal duct, about twice as much, even if installed straight and taught. This isn't a big deal, though, as you can reduce this loss simply by upsizing- if you need 6" metal, use 8" flex, etc, and flex ends up being every bit as good as metal. Loss in bends in flex duct is high, too- it's best to use sheet metal fittings for any sharp bends.

Gorgeous Zan
Apr 13, 2007



the DIY thread was one thing.
This is fantastic and it looks great you have talent!

decaf.tihs
Jul 15, 2005
tester


Great job man. You'd certainly make a killing flipping houses.

Foppish Yet Dashing
Jun 29, 2004

-horsepussy begins now
-horsepussy begins now
-horsepussy begins now
-horsepussy begins now
-horsepussy begins now
-horsepussy begins now

Neat thread, man.

I keep seeing little things and going "tsk, tsk" but then I remember that you're not in Southern California, where building codes are fucking insane. Heh.

Wish we had a house and property we could do this too. Some day

Foppish Yet Dashing fucked around with this message at Apr 29, 2007 around 22:18

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







Thanks guys

Satorr posted:

I keep seeing little things and going "tsk, tsk" but then I remember that you're not in Southern California, where building codes are fucking insane. Heh.
What kind of things struck you as tsk tsk? Most of the techniques for wind resistance are identical to those for seismic resistance, so I shouldn't be too far off.

Although I did put in a ton of light outlets without dimmers OR occupancy sensors! bwahahahaha

teh_c0w
Sep 9, 2004


sorta off topic, but what cad program did you use? looks pretty cool

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







teh_c0w posted:

sorta off topic, but what cad program did you use? looks pretty cool
I mostly used AutoCAD 2002 Architectural. The architectural add-on had a nice package for easy editing of walls, doors and windows, and once drawn, rendered them in full 3D too.

King of Gulps
Sep 3, 2003



Do you have any input on your costs versus going with a panelized package? I've seen dried-in exteriors with roofing, siding, windows, doors and floors for about $30 - 40$/sq. ft. excluding labor (and foundation etc.), and I'm curious how that stacks up with your experience stick framing.

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







Here's my cost breakdown. Total square footage is 2270 square feet measured externally, including a 500 square foot garage.

$ 2,000 Permits
$ 7,400 Materials for the structure (including stairs, floor joists, sheathing, etc)
$ 2,500 Roof (including trusses, shingles, etc)
$15,500 Foundation & slabs, including labor
$ 2,000 Insulation
$ 6,300 Doors & windows
$ 5,600 Siding, including labor
$ 1,800 Electrical
$   900 Plumbing, including bathroom stuff
$ 1,900 Lights
$ 3,600 HVAC (including $250 labor for hookup/charging of the heat pump)
$ 6,000 Drywall & plaster, including labor
$19,300 Kitchen (materials only, except the counter installation labor which was included in the counter price)
$ 2,200 Misc (paint, garage door openers, landscaping (incl backhoe labor), etc)

Yet to go, estimated:
$3,000 ("finished" stairs and railing)
$2,500 Floor covering upstairs, trim


Total price is $36/square foot, if you go by the exterior dimensions, like the real estate appraisers do. For just the dried-in exterior (siding, windows, doors, roof) it was about $11/square foot. I priced out ICF (was really gung-ho for the concept), but it was going to be an assload more expensive than just stick framing it.

grover fucked around with this message at May 12, 2007 around 10:31

Mongolot
Aug 26, 2006

Kazuo Misaki Superfan #1

"I just like to punch people"

I've always had the utmost respect for people who do this kind of stuff themselves.

My dad was always like that too. Why hire some guy, just get down in the dirt yourself and do it.

Half the time it turns out better anyhow, the pros sometimes cut corners and shit...after all, its not THEIR house. But when it's your baby that your working on, you know you'll commit maximum effort.

There really is something to be said for looking at your handiwork, when it's all done, and saying "I fucking built that."

I think it's super cool that you had the balls to do this to your house, and the results look fantastic!

A Child's Letter
Feb 21, 2005


"¡No llores! Gracias por esas fotos."
\


Grover, this "addition" is awesome and makes me wish I knew how to use tools and do math and stuff I can't even build a small table thing without ruining it from the start -- and then tossing it in the garbage a few weeks later anyway

Seriously, this looks beautiful -- and my wife would love your cabinet/countertop choices!

Dr Harlekein
Mar 23, 2007

by Lowtax


This is impressive! AutoCAD has come a long way in the last ten years; the last memory I have of tinkering with it involved what looked more like Visio, and rendering wasn't anything involving base color skins, usually for reference. Oh wait, they had a brick pattern too.

I'm with Child's Letter. Once I tried to build a drafting table (ironic), and it was so miserable that I took an ax to it and we used it as firewood on Independence Day, 2000.

Rathina
Jan 8, 2001


Oh this thread makes me wish we took a lot of before pictures of our house before dumping in about 70K into it. It was a fixer upper, and we replaced EVERYTHING. The roof, doors, windows, brand new kitchen, water softner/water heater, air conditioner, master bedroom & bathroom addition, garage door, block wall surrounding the property, and all new stucco.

It looks excellent now, but I'd hate to post pictures because of not having any before pictures. We have done everything our selves with the help of family members (Yeah for construction families!!) But its a LONG process. 3 1/2 years later and we still are not done.

Nocheez
Sep 4, 2000

Can you spare a little cheddar?


Nap Ghost

I've read every update you've posted, grover. It's been a pleasure seeing someone who doesn't half-ass jobs or contract 90% of it out. Nice job, can't wait to see all the finished photos.

Irish Revenge
May 21, 2004

I AM A GIANT FAGGOT THAT LIKES TO PRETEND I AM AN ADMIN. I LITERALLY SUCK COCK! GLUCK GLUCK I AM SUCKING COCK NOW BECAUSE I AM SUCH A FAGGOT!!!! IF I AM POSTING PLEASE TELL ME TO SUCK SO MUCH COCK I DIE BECAUSE I AM WORTHLESS!!!!!!!!!!!!

grover posted:




Why is the wall cabinet above the OTR Microwave not flush with the rest of the cabinets? That looks like a 30x18 wall cabinet and it's sticking up about 5 inches, but then there's also a 5 inch gap between the bottom of the microwave and the bottom of the other cabinets, which looks very off. You appear to have more than enough room above the range for it to be mounted flush.

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







That was done intentionally to break up the line of the cabinets and look nicer than if it was all in a row. And yes, we could very easily have left it flush if we wanted. Once we get all the trim up, it should look awesome!

Code generally requires 18" between counters and the bottom of the upper cabinets, but 24" over the stove. In practice, it depends on the UL listing of the appliance; this microwave is listed for as little as 12" over the stove, IIRC, but that would be impractical to cook on.

I actually had accidentally measured to put the bottom of the microwave flush with the bottom of the cabinets when I installed the receptacle and vent for it, and went to a LOT of effort to punch and patch a big hole in the wall and move them both 6" up to where you see them in that photo.

grover fucked around with this message at May 22, 2007 around 16:10

Tuesday Morning
Apr 20, 2004

Staring directly into the collective Goatse.cx of the Internet’s soul.

This thread gives me a lot of motivation... and a reality check too. Now I know which parts I don't think I'd be able to or want to undertake, but it makes the things I want to do look simple now that it's explained with pictures.

We're thinking of redoing the bathrooms in our house. Both bathrooms share a wall, which should make things easier (right? eek). All we want to do is replace the shower and vanities in both bathrooms, and perhaps the flooring. We'll definitely look into that Fast-clic because the rest of our house is light colored laminate.

Still amazed at the progression of this project.

C-3PO's ex-wife
Jul 15, 2006

by Fistgrrl


just THINKING about undertaking a project like this myself makes my head want to explode. I don't even want to imagine what it'd end up looking like.

zekezero
Apr 7, 2004



I just found this thread, you did an incredible job. we did about 100K to our farmhouse and I wish I'd had the smarts and guts to do it myself rather than paying a contractor.

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







grover posted:

I ruined a big patch of my vinyl siding breaking in the grill last week. Was cooking cheap 70% lean burgers (hey, 99 cents a lb!) and the grill was too close to the wall when all the grease caught fire; I learned the hard way that the new siding I bought is apparently much less heat resiliant than the older siding Now I have a big section that's all melted and warped to hell that I have to replace...
FINALLY got around to fixing this eyesore last night. I took what I'd meant to be an "interim" picture after I'd removed the damaged siding only to discover just now that I had never actually taken a picture of the nasty bubbled damaged siding. So, you'll just have to use your imaginations- but it looked pretty bad.


Damaged siding cut off the wall. I saved the "good" pieces to try to reuse some of them.


Damaged pieces replaced

The bottom piece doesn't fit as tightly as the other joints on the wall; I think there was damage to it that wasn't visible to look at it, which makes it not fit well. Maybe I'll cut it back further someday, but for now, eh

MightyZaar
Jan 27, 2004
Now with 33% more rage and vengeance!

That is one hell of a project and it looks great. Thanks for documenting it for us!

EvilDonald
Aug 30, 2002

I'm the urban spaceman, baby.

That's very cool, I'd love to build a house one day.

Watch those trees- the ridge pole is what gives a roof much of its strength, and since you used trusses, you don't have a ridge pole, and your roof isn't as strong as a stick built one.

Not a big deal really, just don't let any branches fall on it. If a big one does fall on the roof, it can break the sheathing right there at the top where the two sides come together, since there's no beam under the ridge to take the weight.

But very good work! More people should do stuff like this, instead of plonking down too much money on a shoddily built McMansion in a soulless subdivision full of shoddily built McMansions.

Mr. Bananagrabber
Sep 12, 2004

Look a Seagull!

I spent $30k having someone add on about 400 sq ft to my house. This makes me wonder what I could have done if I had a DIY attitude.

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







EvilDonald posted:

Watch those trees- the ridge pole is what gives a roof much of its strength, and since you used trusses, you don't have a ridge pole, and your roof isn't as strong as a stick built one.

Not a big deal really, just don't let any branches fall on it. If a big one does fall on the roof, it can break the sheathing right there at the top where the two sides come together, since there's no beam under the ridge to take the weight.
How often do 25' tall roof peaks get hit by falling trees? The angle is such that I don't think it's ever possible for a tree to hit the ridge in any 2-story house without first tearing a huge gash in the top plate or knocking the wall down completely. Not unless we're talking sequas or old-growth redwoods, but I don't think a ridge pole would exactly help much there!

There is one section that's a bit spongy from the shingle guys dropping bales of asphalt shingles from hip height right onto the unsupported top edge of the plywood... Lazy ass fuckers

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







grover posted:

Finally got around to doing the trim & weather seal around the garage doors! Since I'm a tad inexperienced, I had made the mistake of framing the door actually 7' high and 9' wide like the garage door instructions said, when I should REALLY have framed them 3" wider, to nail 2x6 pressure treat boards up inside it, so I wasn't able to do it the "normal" way. The siding guys refused to touch it and just put up trim flush around it. Here's how the door looked before, with just the bare studs and housewrap exposed:


"Before", with just bare exposed studs and housewrap."


"Before", with just bare exposed studs and housewrap."


I was going to just wrap them in white flashing for trim, when I happened upon hardiplank in the siding section- hardiplank is high-end concrete siding; it's quite literally concrete molded into a board, and ended up being absolutely PERFECT for this. So, instead of using green-treat 2x6s, I have my garage doors wrapped in concrete I probably ruined my best circular saw blade cutting it, but it turned out pretty well. I still have to go back and seal the joints (they'll disappear) and paint it gloss white to match the trim, but I'm extremely happy with it!


Garage door, with hardiplank trim & weather stripping.

The weather stripping is plastic/rubbery stuff, and the doors came with 2x7' section and one 9' section. The side pieces are designed to slide, and the top is a little different. The door is designed to pull away from the top as it opens- the top piece is adjustable and sticks out a little further to make the seal. I couldn't just wrap the little triangular cutouts, and had to get fancy, which ended up being a real pain-in-the-ass:

Detail, showing how I did the weather stripping around the triangular pieces. I haven't caulked or painted the hardiplank, yet- silicone will hide the joints.
Well, little by little, we still make progress. Today, I wrapped the other garage door with weather stripping; we may actually clean it out tomorrow so we can park both cars in the garage for the first time ever Also put one doorknob on the storage room, which was the last knobless door- we still have 2 doors with "temp" doorknobs that I need to change yet so they all match, though.

But the REAL good news is that my dad's going to fund the new staircase Guess he's feeling generous in his old age, lol... So, hopefully we'll be making REAL progress soon.

  • Post
  • Reply
«11 »