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MaddOperator
Oct 26, 2005


Wow! Last night about 9:45 I started reading about how long a $20 RC Helicopter would last in a 6 year olds hands, and got entrapped by the story of a 2200+ Sq. Ft. Addition. I finally got done with the whole thread about 2AM, after doing a lot of searching on various things such as the tools, balloon framing, engineered materials, looking on Home Depot and Lowes, starting sketches on what I'd do if I built a house.

This is very impressive work. That railing looks amazing. I'm absolutely floored.
Grover, I almost think they need to re-name you SuperGrover.

I'm inspired to start designing my own place. Out here in the sticks you can get some cheap acerage, and building materials are relatively cheap. Thanks for lighting the fire under my ass.

Oh, and on the RC thing, if he uses the time and patience his parents have, he'll be able to navigate your duct system with it! ;D

Now, I guess I have a question or two. I get drilling through the I-joists to run wire and what not. But how did you go about the wiring that ran though the walls? Did you go through the 2X4's with conduit, or did you just run down between the wall with the wiring from the ceiling? And (I haven't checked the local codes here, but I doubt, there are many to be followed with all the farm houses out here) but does the wire have to go through fireproof conduit, or can it be run, in open space without protection? I'd think conduit would help, but I'm not a wiring guy by any means. Though I am good at drywall, so-so at mudding it, and am pretty good with concrete.

Thanks for your time. And thanks for the thread.

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







MaddOperator posted:

Now, I guess I have a question or two. I get drilling through the I-joists to run wire and what not. But how did you go about the wiring that ran though the walls? Did you go through the 2X4's with conduit, or did you just run down between the wall with the wiring from the ceiling? And (I haven't checked the local codes here, but I doubt, there are many to be followed with all the farm houses out here) but does the wire have to go through fireproof conduit, or can it be run, in open space without protection? I'd think conduit would help, but I'm not a wiring guy by any means. Though I am good at drywall, so-so at mudding it, and am pretty good with concrete.

Thanks for your time. And thanks for the thread.
Codes vary from area to area, but generally, you can run type NM ("romex") wire through interior walls of houses with no extra protection. There are some caveots- namely, it has to be at least 1.25" back from the surface of the stud, to protect against people nailing/screwing through it later. It must be supported (through a hole or with a staple) every couple feet or so. You have to have it stabled securely within 12" of every box, or a little closer if the box doesn't have an integral cable clamp. Now, it may seem obvious, but drilling holes through studs does weaken it. Counterintuitively, though, drilling a hole in the center of a stud weakens if FAR less than at the edge. For instance, drilling a single 1" hole in the center of a 2x4 weakens it about 2.5%. Drilling a 1" hole at the very edge of a 2x4 weakens it by 64%! Smaller holes weaken less than large holes. (For I-joists, it doesnt' really matter; the difference is negligible regardless of where in the plywood you put the hole.) In some instances, code requieres you to put on thick steel reinforcement when you cut too much out- for instance, cutting a 3.5" hole through a 2x6 top-plate to pass a 3" PVC pipe. In other instances, you can't even do that much- you can't run a 3" PVC pipe at all through vertical studs. For wires and pipes, if you put them too close to the stud, you need to put on metal protective places so you don't accidentally put a nail through it later.


Electrical panel top-entry wiring, completely installed

The white wires are #14 romex, yellow are #12 romex, orange #10 (for AC and shop outlets) and the thick black cable is #6 romex going to the air handler. Romex is easy, so I used it wherever I could. The cables feeding this panel were larger than you can get romex, and only come in "loose" individual wires, which are required to be installed in conduit. So, I ran 1.5" conduit all the way from this box, through the I-joists, through the attic of the old house, and down to the existing panel, and pulled 3 #1/0 THW wires through it, plus a #6 ground.

I had originally planned to pull the #6 wire to my air handler the same way; I bought blue "smurf" tube flex conduit (you can see a piece leaning against the wall in the next picture) and drilled 1.25" holes through the center of every stud in the center wall to accomodate it. I ended up buying romex though, which was a heck of a lot easier to pull, heh. For the #12 and #14, I drilled 5/8" holes near the center of the studs as possible. I tried to make every hole as consistant a height as possible so that I wouldn't have to worry about putting a nail through it later; I could measure up 18" and say "nope, no nail here!" You can see how the cables are stapled, too. Code limits you to no more than 2 romex cables pulled together (too many wires in a bundle can overheat), so I drilled extra holes in many cases, and tried to keep them separate. When we went back and insulated, we cut the insulation and stuffed it around the wires best we could. I filled all the penetrations in insulated walls with expanding foam, too.

Running wiring through insulating concrete foam (ICF) is similar- you take a tool with a hot loop of wire, and use it to cut strips through the foam to push in the romex, then you hold it in place with expanding foam. Same 1.25"/protection rules apply. The concrete generally comes pre-formed with cable penetrations, otherwise you bury smurf tube in before you pour, because you're not going to be able to later!


Example of wiring in the walls

Houses don't have to follow the same stringent fireproofing rules as actual "fire walls" in commercial structures and between apartments do. They still have to be fireproofed, expecially stairs and garages. Gypsum drywall and fiberglass provides excellent fire protection, though, especially 5/8" "Type-X" drywall designed specifically for applications like fireproofing garages. Code requires you to firestop at every floor, and every so often along horizontal beams, but you're allowed to bore small holes and cut holes in the drywall to install receptacles in plastic boxes, etc. You don't have to have any firestop between adjacent vertical studs. The goal is not to keep your house from burning down, but to slow the progression of the fire and collapse of your house long enough for everyone to escape.

grover fucked around with this message at Nov 11, 2007 around 12:39

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







We tried 2 different types of construction adhesive, but the balisturs still ended up loose. We finally retrofitted the construction adhesive with epoxy, which did the trick! Our house is not ready for the final building inspection


All the ballisturs up and epoxied in place


All the ballisturs up and epoxied in place


Still need to get the stair bracket trim on the side to hide the end of the riser & edge of the plaster, and a strip of small crown molding under the tread nosing along balcony, and the stairs will be done-done!

Messadiah
Jan 11, 2001



The stairway looks fantastic, keep up the good work!

Maniaman
Mar 2, 2006


I can't believe it has almost been a year since you posted this thread. This has certainly progressed nicely.

Now you are making me want to build my own house DIY.

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







Had the final inspection today!!! and failed



They want this window to be tempered glass ($200 to replace, but easy to change out) and says the overhang on the roof is too short in the back, and that we have to replace every shingle along the edge of the roof to make it another 1.5" longer. ARRGHHHH!

What happened is that I'd carefully measured the roof and laid out the shingles so we would end at an even 1' interval, as 1/2" strips of singles on the ends would look terribly and easily tear off. So, we put 1.5" overhangs on both eaves. Unfortunately, when the siding guys came, they put 1.5" Z fascia under both eaves, making it even with the side of the roof and illegal. The inspector says it's OK in the front (where slight variation ended up OK) but not in the back (where slight variation left it .25" she vice .5" long). We have another 2 boxes of shingles and my wife volunteered to do the work to fix it, but man, that's a pain in the ass job right there.

Edit: I guess this means I get to clean up the house for thanksgiving...

grover fucked around with this message at Nov 19, 2007 around 11:41

Janelle
Apr 5, 2004


That sucks Grover. Hopefully you guys will get it all done soon. Let me repeat what everyone has been saying. You have done an amazing job with the addition.

shorty round
May 22, 2005

by elpintogrande


Your' house looks beautiful, keep up the good work, your almost there!

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







Well, the replacement tempered glass window came in- $171 and they only sent one sash! Turns out it was no mistake- the moron only ordered one sash, and wanted me to pay another $171 for the 2nd. Of course, I could buy an ENTIRE WINDOW for $270. (This is for a window you can buy non-tempered for $130.) So I told them to just keep the sash, and I'll order a whole new window. I have to wait for the refund to show up before we can order the replacement, though. I might just talk to someone else- Lowes & Home Depot have great prices for stuff they stock, but really rape people on special orders.

The stairs are DONE-done, trim is finished, and it's all decorated for christmas with an 11' tree, tons of garland, and about 25 strings of lights I'll post pictures soon.

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


Epic thread, I'd absolutely love to build my house one day.

Just an odd question, what are wooden houses really like?

Do they feel as sturdy as brick/concrete?

I guess once the structure comes together it must be really solid, and having hollow walls must be amazingly useful for wiring.. I just never really thought about it before, and living in England means pretty much every building ever is brick or concrete

Edit: good luck passing the next inspection!

Exi7wound
Aug 22, 2004

LOGANO
Remember my name... you'll be screaming it later.


grover posted:

The stairs are DONE-done, trim is finished, and it's all decorated for christmas with an 11' tree, tons of garland, and about 25 strings of lights I'll post pictures soon.



I'm dying to see your place decorated for xmas. Allow me to add my kudos. That's a hellova job you've tackled, and it really does look great.

Dr_Strangelove
Dec 16, 2003

The runiation of the "Pictures of Women" thread was a collective effort, Mein Führer.

Sweet Baby Jesus. I just saw this thread today, and I am utterly astounded. What an enormous project to undertake.

Hell, I have a garbage disposal that's rusted through and sprung a leak, and replacing THAT has me all wound-up and irritable.

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.



Oh cmon Grover, you knew you were bound to fail one after you got off scott free with that half-assed electrical shit you pulled

Just kidding, seems like an easy fix, and it could be a lot worse. I had to tear an entire wall down once and reframe/wire/finish the whole thing due to a mixup on the framing for the window. That sucked.

edit: empty your PM box, and what's with the new title?

Elendil004 fucked around with this message at Dec 8, 2007 around 13:14

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







HalloKitty posted:

Epic thread, I'd absolutely love to build my house one day.

Just an odd question, what are wooden houses really like?

Do they feel as sturdy as brick/concrete?
Absolutely. In our house, the existing house is concrete block (20cm thick), the addition is insulated 2x6 construction (14cm thick) the non-lead bearing interior walls are hollow 2x4 construction (9cm thick). All walls are covered in 1/2" gysum wallboard (often called "sheetrock" or "drywall") covered in plaster. You can't nail it directly into concrete block, so the concrete block walls are furred out with 2cm thick strips of wood. If you push on and of the 2x6 walls, it's SOLID. You simply can't move it- there's no vibration, no sense of if being anything less than solid rock. It you pound the drywall on it with your fist or a mallet, you can sense where the studs or furring strips are- but if you didn't know which was stud or block, you'd never be able to figure it out by feel.

Since the interior non-load bearing interior walls are hollow (insulation is expensive!), they're noticibly different to pound on. And since they're non-load bearing, they're not tied into the structure as well- in fact, it's illegal to securely fasten them to the floor and ceiling because they'd become load bearing and transfer loads where they shouldn't be transferred- the connections have to be made via diaphragm or slip joint. These walls do give a little- if you slam a door real hard, you can see if vibrate a bit. But I'm sure you have interior walls like that in Europe, too?

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW








11' Christmas Tree & stairs decorated for christmas

PainterofCrap
Oct 16, 2002

Hey bebe



Grover, it looks outstanding. You are absolutely anal about your wiring, though. I installed a new service panel last year, thought it looked nice 'n' neat (especially compared to the 1972 Wadsworth it replaced)...but I didn't label my wires. Damn.

Code inspectors are a pain in the ass. Yes, I know that in the end they are looking out for our best interests and all...but, still. They could have given you an advisory & passed you. Your mechanical work should have blown them out of their boots.

HalloKitty posted:

Epic thread, I'd absolutely love to build my house one day.

Just an odd question, what are wooden houses really like?

Do they feel as sturdy as brick/concrete?

My house was built in 1930. The basement walls are concrete block; above that is wood framing. In Switzerland, the house we lived in (when I was a kid) was poured concrete & 3-layers of red brick.

Wood is sturdy, but it gives a bit when you hit it, as opposed to the concrete, which feels monolithic...wood framing transfers more vibration. Also, my floors bounce when I walk on them. Concrete floors don't really move at all.

I can't say I have a preference; each system has it's strengths. I have done extensive plumbing and electrical work in my home, though; as you noted, it's a damned sight easier to add or move wall receptacles or ceiling fixtures with wood frame than poured concrete. Same with the plumbing.

Error 404 NpH
Nov 26, 2000



grover posted:


Air handler with sheet metal intake shroud and ductboard distribution box. The next piece of duct is in the foreground.


View from the house looking through what will be the filter/grille, through the sheet metal shroud and into the inside of the air handler. Notice my fine handiwork!

I know these are a few months old but Im just curious about a few things on your HVAC system.

1) Since you put your return so close to the air handler how loud is that thing when its running? Usually a longer return trunk is used to reduce noise.

2) Wheres your emergency switch? Maybe its not code by you but theres usually an emergency switch within eyesight/arms reach of the air handler.

3) If you havent fixed the ptrap yet on the drain I recommend picking up one of these http://www.unicosystem.com/media/pdfs/Bulletin20-083(2005-05).pdf ptraps with built in float switch to shut down system if the drains get clogged.

4) Did you put any styrofoam or old carpet under the air handler and its platform to cut down vibration?

And overall Im just curious how well the system runs.

edit: oh yeah watch that duct board, has a tendancy to blow out at the seams over time from the fan pressure

Error 404 NpH fucked around with this message at Dec 8, 2007 around 23:00

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







Error 404 NpH posted:

I know these are a few months old but Im just curious about a few things on your HVAC system.

1) Since you put your return so close to the air handler how loud is that thing when its running? Usually a longer return trunk is used to reduce noise.

2) Wheres your emergency switch? Maybe its not code by you but theres usually an emergency switch within eyesight/arms reach of the air handler.

3) If you havent fixed the ptrap yet on the drain I recommend picking up one of these http://www.unicosystem.com/media/pdfs/Bulletin20-083(2005-05).pdf ptraps with built in float switch to shut down system if the drains get clogged.

4) Did you put any styrofoam or old carpet under the air handler and its platform to cut down vibration?

And overall Im just curious how well the system runs.
1) The fan is extremely quiet, and there's very little noise. In fact, we can't even really tell it's on if the TV is on or there's any other background noise. The newest generation of air handlers is nice that way And yes, I was worried about this, too, but I'm glad it ended up OK.

2) No switch is required if it's in proximity to the electrical panel, which it is- power comes straight into the built-in breaker. I do have a cutout on the condenser unit.

3) At the moment, if the P-trap clogs, the secondary just drips right into the garage, which is OK and will be quickly noticed

4) I put some foam tubes underneath it to dampen the vibration. Ended up being severely compressed, far more than I expected, but still provides enough resilience to dampen out the high-frequency vibrations, and works as well as commercial hard rubber mounts, I guess.

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







Now that you've seen the finished project, here's a compilation of some of the small setbacks and injuries we've had along the way:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0x8kml-afs&NR=1

Elendil004
Mar 22, 2003

The prognosis
is not good.



Those are more of DIYers being idiots rather than disasters

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







I've been telling people for a long time that the addition is *almost* done, but is still missing the last vital component... and 3 days ago, it was completed! We were going to wait until February with the tax refund, but just couldn't wait, and are not the proud owners of a 65" 1080p DLP HDTV! Got a great deal on it, another $150 off that plus no interest for 12 months. Had to go buy a new reciever since our old one crapped out last year, and got most of the surround-sound hooked up. Have HDML, component video, 3 TOSlinks and a 500VA UPS in the mail, hopefully arriving before christmas. For now, I'm using some audio cables as a temporary component video link and stuck with dolby pro-logic like it's 1992 again, but still looks and sounds GREAT and we're very psyched for football


Living Room complete with the addition of a 65" 1080p HDTV & surround-sound

None of our TV stands were big enough so we're going to build a new custom stand from scratch. For now, the coffee table will have to suffice.

Lando
Sep 15, 2003

by T. Finn


Thats pretty kickass. Glad to see everything working out all the way.

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







Lando posted:

Thats pretty kickass. Glad to see everything working out all the way.
Oh man, are we enjoying it! Had our neighbors over for a big football party yesterday- the kids played in the old living room, while the adults guzzled beer watching the game

And man, I'm glad I bought that TV when I did- circuit city has already jacked the price back up $200 to $1699- was only $1499 when I bought it. With a 10% off coupon, I only paid $1350. Was just over $1400 with tax.

The component video and TOSlink cables came in, so we have full surround. NFL games were wierd to hear the crowd noise so clearly in the background- with Dolby Pro Logic via analog TV, we're used to hearing a lot of commentary and crowd noise through all channels, but with digital, it's 100% crystal clear stadium noise, like cheering and music, but ONLY through the surround speakers. Took a few minutes to figure out where the music was coming from.

Edit: UPS man just brought the UPS! Got it hooked up now, so we have about 5-10 minutes even if the power blinks. Which, honestly I got more for the surge suppression than the battery backup, though battery backup is great for DVRs since they really really don't like being cycled.

grover fucked around with this message at Dec 24, 2007 around 12:35

Dirty Rob
Aug 10, 2004

by Fistgrrl


See kids, this is the nice kind of stuff you get when you work for the man.

King Nothing
Apr 25, 2005

Ray was on a stool when he glocked the cow.

Dirty Rob posted:

See kids, this is the nice kind of stuff you get when you work for the man.

I think you mean this is the nice kind of stuff you get when you are the man.

Great work grover.

coaster
Apr 15, 2003


Beautiful job on your house. The Christmas decorations look great!

delete
Oct 19, 2004

Forums Kia Apologist

grover posted:

Living Room complete with the addition of a 65" 1080p HDTV & surround-sound

Congratulations, looks like a fantastic job all around.

SovietSpyGuy
Jun 22, 2007


To tell you the truth, this thread initially made me cringe...too many memories. We bought a house a while ago when we didn't have much money and have been constantly improving it since. I've been doing various remodeling jobs with my parents for nearly 13 years now...ugh.

That said, you really did some fine work. Hard to say for sure without really looking at it close up but it looks nice and is staying up, so good on you guys. I shudder to think how much a contractor would ask for all that, at least in my parts. I am personally just sick of all the construction but I suppose it is different when you do it for your reasons. I'm impressed that you are practically finished with it in about a year!

Hope you enjoy your new home (expansion) for years to come.

blixkin
Oct 31, 2004
lollerskates

Nice work-- have any plans for the landscaping situation?

gwon
Sep 11, 2001

Dr. Duck says "NO!"

I just found this thread today thanks to the new forum. What an epic journey you've just taken me on. I can't believe how well this has come out, the house looks fantastic. You and your wife should be proud of yourselves, but you don't need me to tell you that.

misscelestia
Jan 7, 2003


Wow. This is thread is simply amazing!

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







Thanks again, everyone

blixkin posted:

Nice work-- have any plans for the landscaping situation?
Oh, my wife has ALL sorts of plans, lol... I try not to encourage her, lest I come home and discover she's blown another $300 at the nursery, as she's been prone to do in the past

At present, our plans are just to lay down grass seed in the other half of the backyard... We'd previously fenced the dogs into half the yard while we nurtered grass in the other half, which left us (surprise!) with half grass and half mud.

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