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InStiNcT
Jul 25, 2006


Somebody get this man some goldbond, he earned it.

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







MrGunner posted:

As a framer myself a lot of the framing you did amuses me as you could have done a lot less, or the same a lot easier, but I'm unsure what kind of codes you have to follow there. Everything looks really nice though and you did a good job for never really having done it before.
We didn't need to use 2x6, but I wanted R19 in the walls. And as an engineer, I REALLY wanted it in the balloon-framed parts. I know I wasted some boards doing it in 8' chunks vs 12' or 16', but this was the only way we could lift them- and they were heavy enough as-is! As DIYs, we were miserly with the scaps and had virtually no scrap at the end though- I think our average scrap piece we tossed was 4"; quite literally, everything over a foot got used

Any hints/tips for next time (lol, yeah right!) or for anyone else out there who might try to DIY an addition?

grover fucked around with this message at May 22, 2007 around 16:09

umlaut fetish
Jun 19, 2006

by Lowtax


Really cool. My family is pretty into DIY; I've been bringing tools to my elders since I was about 6.

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







Male of the Century posted:

How on earth did you not kill yourself having to do all the sheathign by yourself, and having it done all in plywood rather than celotex, and not sheathing the second floor walls before standing them up. I understand that this is a DIY project, a massive one at that, but my god man, your back must hate you so much now.
We sheathed in 1/2" CDX which isn't all that heavy. It's unweildy, but not very heavy. I would pre-measure and cut on the ground, and I'd stick roofing H clips at the bottom. That way, I could slip the board into the H clips and just push it up at the top. Usually, my wife would help for the larger pieces. Then, it was just a matter of getting a couple nails in, and it would hold itself.

I didn't nail them up on the ground because the walls were already bitching heavy for 2 of us to lift! We had pre-nailed the walls on our shed like that, though.

Also, I installed much of the sheathing vertically with extra nails, to act in tension to transmit the wind uplift, vice using hurricane straps. I wouldn't have been able to do that until the studs were up.

grover fucked around with this message at Dec 30, 2006 around 18:55

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







meatlock posted:

i assume this is going to increase the property value more than the cost of the extension?
WAY more! Of the $80k, about $70k is in materials. Rule of thumb is that labor is about as much as the materials- so, figure $160k. Then add on 30% for the general contractor- $210k. Added onto our last $145k appraisal gives a total of $355k, which is on the low end of what new houses of this size are going for.

One of the intangibles is that adding a 2nd floor REALLY changes the way our house is appraised- as a 1 story, it's compared to the shitty run-down 1-stories in the area that are depressed on price. As a 2-story, it's now compared to the new 2-story houses going in all the big developments. So, adding a 2nd story likely quite literally added about $100k to the value of our house by itself!

At any rate, I've got $170k tied up in a 3200 square foot 6-bedroom/3-bath house, which I think is pretty good

grover fucked around with this message at Dec 30, 2006 around 18:54

Chasie
Nov 17, 2004

Don't stop believin'

Awesome beyond belief.

What kind of building permits did you have to obtain from whatever city you live in? Isn't there a time limit on those types of things?

I'd love to build a two car garage but there's no fucking way, to put it mildly.

Shadow
Jun 25, 2002


grover posted:

WAY more! Of the $80k, about $70k is in materials. Rule of thumb is that labor is about as much as the materials- so, figure $160k. Then add on 30% for the general contractor- $210k. Added onto our last $145k appraisal gives a total of $355k, which is on the low end of what new houses of this size are going for.

One of the intangibles is that adding a 2nd floor REALLY changes the way our house is appraised- as a 1 story, it's compared to the shitty run-down 1-stories in the area that are depressed on price. As a 2-story, it's now compared to the new 2-story houses going in all the big developments. So, adding a 2nd story likely quite literally added about $100k to the value of our house by itself!

At any rate, I've got $170k tied up in a 3200 square foot 6-bedroom/3-bath house, which I think is pretty good

I wish I had the know how and ability to do a project of this magnitude, but I know exactly what's in my future.

Make a phone call. Tell them what I want. Hand them money.
Much like how I feed myself every day.

*sigh*

It ain't easy being green.

Dolomite
Jul 25, 2000
Cars & Legs



grover posted:

Lowes and Home Depot had some of the flex duct and fittings, but not enough to do any real work. I don’t understand it- any idiot idiot off the street can walk into any electrical or plumbing supply house, but the HVAC people only want to sell to licensed HVAC contractors? WTF?

I went through this trying to get a contactor for my heat pump. I found a list of HVAC supplier web sites and started applying for accounts with a made-up company name. One approved me and I ordered parts off of their site, here: http://www.uri.com. Ignore the prices you see browsing through the catalog, they're designed to scare off DIYers from ordering. Once you get a login, they show the real price. When I ordered the contactor, the quoted price was $15-20, but when it arrived it was $3. From what I've found, they only restrict ordering sealed HVAC systems and refrigerant unless you have a license.

Reading HVAC forums will tell you that both the suppliers and contractors are protective of each other. Suppliers will published exorbitant prices in their catalogs in case a homeowner gets a hold of a catalog so they won't be upset to find what the parts cost the contractor. Not saying that they shouldn't make money off the parts, but the secrecy annoys me. Which is why I found a way around it. I'd rather wait on the UPS guy than the HVAC guy. My labor is free.

DoktorLoken
Apr 12, 2002



All I have to say is that this is rather impressive.

mod sassinator
Dec 13, 2006



That's awesome but the computer nerd in me wants to know what your plans are for networking. Are you going to run any ethernet, A/V, etc?

mod sassinator fucked around with this message at Dec 30, 2006 around 19:11

NihilismNow
Aug 31, 2003


Dache posted:

Er, good point, "throughout" was definitely the wrong word there. The foundations and main walls are brick though (or, I guess, more accurately they're breeze-blocks), and are covered on the outside with red brick.

The floors, though, are wood. Pipes are usually laid under the floorboards, and come up into the house itself through the floor.

As for the inner walls, I think it varies from house to house. For example, my parents house was built around the 1960s, and I think they're mostly wood covered with plaster.

Are you sure that is still the case in the UK?

Houses built in the Netherlands after 1970 or so are from outside to inside: Brick, insulation, Gaseous Concrete. Floors made out of prefab concrete (with hollow ducts for wiring and plumbing). Inner walls made out of gaseous concrete (usually, wooden frames do happen for non load bearing walls). Most houses must have concrete poles driven about 5 meters deep for a foundation (more a local thing because the soil sucks i suppose).

I suppose most of it is massive overkill but i am also freaked out by these wooden houses without a "real" (roof tile) roof. Though i suppose it must work since 300 million people or so live in them.

Deadmeat5150
Nov 21, 2005

OLD MAN YELLS AT CLAN


Grover just became that much more awesome in my eyes.

I watched my dad help build our house in California and even though I was 7 years old, I still had fun carrying nails and tools and whatnot. Nowadays I feel it's a chore to go to work.

nexxai
Jul 16, 2002

quack quack bjork

Fun Shoe

MOD SASSINATOR posted:

That's awesome but the computer nerd in me wants to know what your plans are for networking. Are you going to run any ethernet, A/V, etc?
And the thread reader in the rest of us want to know if you've actually read the whole thread.

I mean come on, it's not even two full pages yet.

kristchan
Oct 8, 2005
Jerk detected! This user is on your ignore list, click to view post anyway
grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







Chasie posted:

Awesome beyond belief.

What kind of building permits did you have to obtain from whatever city you live in? Isn't there a time limit on those types of things?

I'd love to build a two car garage but there's no fucking way, to put it mildly.
We have to get permits for everything. I got a zoning permit, building permit, plumbing permit, electrical permit and mechanical permit. I had to get a separate permit to install another pipe and widen my driveway. Ran about $400 in fees, not counting the sewer tap which will be another $3k when they get around to charging me

Also, because I have a septic field, I had to get a permit from the health department, which was surprisingly difficult. First, I had to prove I stayed 10' from the field. Second, the health dept prohibited me from having closets.

Health Dept: 2000 square foot addition? Oh, sorry, you can't do that, you have closets!
Me: What?
Health Dept: Yeah, sorry, that's illegal. Can't you wait until sewer comes?
Me: No, I want to start now. WTF? What if I take out the closets?
Health Dept: Oh, that's OK then! You're approved.
Me: Ummm... OK. Thanks?
Health Dept: Just don't put in any closets until you have sewer!!

Apparently, they size septic fields not based on bathrooms, but on occupancy, which they assume is 2 people per bedroom. Take a bedroom-sized room and add a closet, it's considered a bedroom, regardless of what I plan to use it for because the NEXT guy might use it for a bedroom. No closet, and it doesn't count. I can call it storage/utility/sewing, etc, and that's OK. It's fucked up.

Either way, my septic field can't even support 2 people, so it was academic to me, but not to them!

BaronVonBigmeat
Sep 4, 2003

Edison's Medicine

As I said in another thread where you had mentioned your house, I thought I was a real badass for basically gutting my house, and teaching myself to build a new closet from scratch, flooring, travertine shower, etc. Then I see something of this magnitude. And you still work full time, probably more hours than me too. And you aren't a retired builder or anything, you had little experience with any of this beforehand. Jesus. I've met people who built their own houses, but usually it was something like an ex-carpenter and his wife and several kids taking 6 years to build.

How did you learn all this? Just reading a shitload of books beforehand? I mean it's one thing to teach yourself tile from a book or something, but doing all the structural planning and whatnot for a first-timer seems mind-boggling.

Oh and contracting out the drywall. As the old knight from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade says, "You chose...wisely." On my bathroom and my mom's, getting the seams to disappear was literally half the time spent on each project, I think. And doing it on a ceiling? Oh fuck that. If I had to do it again, I think I'd do a antique-style faux-tin ceiling, just to avoid taping and sanding upside-down.

Did you ever look into using structural insulated panels (foam-core panels)? They look cool, I guess they come prefabbed from the factory and your house is up in a couple weeks, plus they're superinsulated compared to stick-built. The prices are not much higher than stick-built, but I think that's compared to paying a contractor; the panels are expensive but labor is way less. I guess that doesn't matter if it's your own labor though.

BaronVonBigmeat fucked around with this message at Dec 30, 2006 around 19:21

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







MOD SASSINATOR posted:

That's awesome but the computer nerd in me wants to know what your plans are for networking. Are you going to run any ethernet, A/V, etc?
Just 802.11g. I have some 100BaseTX run from my router to my ReplayTV, but everything else is wifi.

Russian Dollies
Jun 25, 2006

Basically... RUN.



I wish I had the know how to pull something like this off. I'm still proud of myself for installing my shower massage.

It looks great. I'd be curious to see how it looks inside when all is done, so make sure to keep us updated.

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005



That is extremely impressive. It looks like you had a lot of fun doing it too.

TheBoohi
Jan 25, 2005

Suffer not the witch to live

Awesome work. I love threads like this, as there are really talented and hard-working DIY goons out there. I am eagerly awaiting more pictures, but I understand it will probably be a while

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







BaronVonBigmeat posted:

How did you learn all this? Just reading a shitload of books beforehand? I mean it's one thing to teach yourself tile from a book or something, but doing all the structural planning and whatnot for a first-timer seems mind-boggling.
Mostly intuition, I guess. None of this stuff is rocket science, and normal people do it all the time. Just usually not so much all together I have a solid engineering background,and between the code books and examples from the web, I was able to do most of it. I had a few questions that I posted to DIY forums, but to be honest, it wasn't very helpful, they were mostly all "that's beyond a DIY job, you need to hire a pro!"

quote:

Did you ever look into using structural insulated panels (foam-core panels)? They look cool, I guess they come prefabbed from the factory and your house is up in a couple weeks, plus they're superinsulated compared to stick-built. The prices are not much higher than stick-built, but I think that's compared to paying a contractor; the panels are expensive but labor is way less. I guess that doesn't matter if it's your own labor though.
Yes, I did actually! I priced out ICF, which is comparable when labor is included, but the material cost was about about 3x the cost of stick framing. I was more comfortable with stick framing, so it was a no-brainer for me. $120/yd concrete just adds up SO fast when talking about ICF.

grover fucked around with this message at Dec 30, 2006 around 19:30

squirrellypoo
Feb 7, 2003


Wow. I've seen all the photos before (times a thousand. dear god, Dad likes his camera way too much...), but having them all in a line like that just makes it even more impressive. And I hadn't realised quite how much Lis had contributed before, either. No wonder she hasn't had time to do anything in the past year!

(You wanna come do our boat as your next project? )

ntd
Apr 17, 2001

Give me a sandwich!

What's the tip the PLumbing Inspector gave you for insulating the new pipe you had to run?

I'm a new homeowner and would love to be able to do something like this, but I don't tihnk my wife would ever let me attempt it

twice a runner
Feb 19, 2003


Very, very impressive. My late grandfather built his house with the help of my parents, aunts, and uncles, and some other people in the extended family. It was an amazing, beautiful house. He had an accident while installing a skylight years after completion and broke his back. Had to sell the house to pay for medical bills -- it was heartbreaking.

BaronVonBigmeat
Sep 4, 2003

Edison's Medicine

Did you do a radiant barrier? I know two of the engineers at work won't shut up about what a difference it made on their a/c bills (compared to adding insulation). And that's just the stuff you add to the attic of an older house, they aren't able to retrofit the outer walls without tearing off siding.

flatman
Jul 14, 2004



My family is doing something very similar. We started with a two-bedroom, rather modest suburbian house in 1984. Before we moved in, we had another room added, which became the master bedroom (I was one at the time, but I'm pretty sure we paid a crew to do the construction). Then, thirteen years later, before my sister and I head off to college, my parents decide our house is half as big as it should be and we begin a gargantuan project that's been going on for nearly ten years now.

We added eight rooms (including basement, attic and garage), and two of the rooms are frikkin HUGE. So far we've done all the work ourselves except the foundation and the heating/AC. I figure I'll post a thread about it when the job is done, but that may not be for another three or four years at least, so stay tuned goons! We currently have one room near completion (just needs a real floor instead of plywood), and all the rest are still in need of wiring, sheet rock/plaster, flooring, etc.

Here's some teaser pics:





These were taken a few years ago, so the exterior is a bit more complete now, but everything from the octagon (bay windows) and beyond to the right is new construction.

Question for the OP: do your neighbors hate you? We have alienated all our neighbors, one-by-one, either out of jealousy, waking them up during the weekends with construction noises, building fences along the perimeter of our yard, or allowing them to succumb to senility (the old couple next to us literally calls the cops and the town on us every day. I was wondering if you've stepped on any toes in a similar fashion?

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







ntd posted:

What's the tip the PLumbing Inspector gave you for insulating the new pipe you had to run?

I'm a new homeowner and would love to be able to do something like this, but I don't tihnk my wife would ever let me attempt it
I didn't want to run the pipe through the atic (over the joists) because it would be uninsulated- even covering it with insulation would still make it get hot/cold depending on the season, leading to an uncomfortable burst of hot/cold water in the shower/sink/etc.

What he suggested was to remove all the insulation from beneath the pipe, and pile up scrap R-19 or R-30 over top of it, essentially enlarging the conditioned space below, and leaving the pipe at room temperature. I thought this was brilliant! I haven't done it yet, but I've carted all our scrap insulation to the attic with that intent

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







BaronVonBigmeat posted:

Did you do a radiant barrier? I know two of the engineers at work won't shut up about what a difference it made on their a/c bills (compared to adding insulation). And that's just the stuff you add to the attic of an older house, they aren't able to retrofit the outer walls without tearing off siding.
I looked into it, but it wouldn't work too well with my scissor trusses- not enough room. Might work well under the floor over the garage, but honestly, I WANT heat leakage into the garage, and built the separating walls only to code minimum, to try to keep it as conditioned as possible.

I was thinking about putting it in my existing attic, but I don't think my A/C bills are bad enough to waste the effort- plus, that stuff isn't exactly cheap! Should be though, it's just aluminum-foil-coated bubble wrap, it should be pennies, they're robbing us!

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







flatman posted:

Question for the OP: do your neighbors hate you? We have alienated all our neighbors, one-by-one, either out of jealousy, waking them up during the weekends with construction noises, building fences along the perimeter of our yard, or allowing them to succumb to senility (the old couple next to us literally calls the cops and the town on us every day. I was wondering if you've stepped on any toes in a similar fashion?
Not at all- in fact, we've been quite the inspiration and several other neighbors have started projects. We're good friends with our two closest neighbors, and neither of them were the least bit bothered. But then, we try not to make a lot of noise very early or very late.

The only complaint we've had was from our neighbor's landlord who was bitching about us for who knows what reason, but she she was an ass who evicted my neighbor on bullshit complaints with no notice so she could move in (messy divorce), but then instead left it sit empty for 3 months before selling it. The new neighbosr don't care either. And my neighbor on my other side (dreadlocked black guy with my kids in the one sewer pipe pic [Edit: that I haven't posted yet! oops! Will be in the next update]) is a plasterer who did all our plaster work, too! He's always hanging out over here, telling us how great we're doing

grover fucked around with this message at Dec 30, 2006 around 21:19

Tomarse
Mar 7, 2001

Grr

Nice job, and it is interesting to see how you build houses over there!

They seem to be just starting to build wooden ones in the UK, but im used to brick and breezeblock.

How exactly do you find the time to do it all while working? I am having serious trouble finding time to work on my house (doing various things like wiring, bathrooms and garden stuff) whilst working and trying to play with a couple of cars!

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







Tomarse posted:

How exactly do you find the time to do it all while working? I am having serious trouble finding time to work on my house (doing various things like wiring, bathrooms and garden stuff) whilst working and trying to play with a couple of cars!
It's tough- it's sucked up almost all our spare time. We haven't had a vacation at all this year, and all our days off have been spent working. My wife and I are both ADD and it's been hard at time, we've gone through periods where nothing will get done- my normal mode is to do one or two small things and take a 2-hour break. Drives my wife nuts! Other times, I'll work non-stop all day.

Not that my wife has an adderall prescription, she'll go at it like a machine until 1 or 2am some days and get tons done. Right now, I think she's a bit upset because all I've done on the flooring all day is one tiny piece, which I finished, and then immediately took a 2-hour break, lol! Speaking of which, I should probably go put some more flooring in before she gets back from Lowes... (I've spent most of the last 8 hours composing and replying to this thread)

I have had to take a few days off to work on my car, too. Had to change my in-laws' Escort's alternator, change the starter on my camaro, and change the oil in all our cars twice. I'm looking forward to having a garage for working on my car now!

grover fucked around with this message at Dec 30, 2006 around 20:11

Tomarse
Mar 7, 2001

Grr

There is hope for me then! - I work in exactly the same way as you. Some days I can get up early and then work non-stop all day and some days I seem to fall into having lots of big breaks!

I have trouble with the vacations too! I've actually managed 5 days this year (which makes it a good one!) and that was only staying with my parents 500 miles away.

I also have loads of jobs on the go at once!

I think i could do with taking a month or two off work and trying to knock some jobs off the list - though i'd probably end up buying something new to work on too!

It makes me feel much better knowing what youve pulled off over 12 months!

Hot Dog Hotline
Jul 24, 2004

Hello? Hello?

Welp, just reading this thread made my ass tired. There's no way I'm doing something like this ever. Good job though, looks like real quality work.

Withnail
Feb 11, 2004


Can I ask which nailgun you borrowed and how much it sped up the framing?

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







Withnail posted:

Can I ask which nailgun you borrowed and how much it sped up the framing?
I think it was a Porter Cable FR350, and it certainly sped up sheathing! Incomparably sped it up! As in "my arm gave out after one sheet of plywood nailed by hand 6" OC with 8D common nails" We didn't use it at all for framing, though, we just used normal hammers- for the amount we were using it, it just seemed easier to use hammers and nails rather than get out the compressor and set it all up. My buddy I borrowed it from swears by it for everything, though, he says he'll never swing a hammer again. I tell you what though, it makes toenailing a breeze!

Cuerzo
Sep 10, 2002


I have to design a 2-storey house, despite having no idea about architecture (some studying abroad bullshit story). These pictures are a HUGE help. Thanks!

Withnail
Feb 11, 2004


Cool thanks. I want to buy a nailer and compressor but I can't decide whether to get one for roofing, finishing or framing. Which probably means I don't need one in the first place.

Very nice work on the addition. I think your wife made a good choice by contracting the drywall. After a few diy drywall projects, I think it's one of the best parts to outsource.

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







Withnail posted:

Cool thanks. I want to buy a nailer and compressor but I can't decide whether to get one for roofing, finishing or framing. Which probably means I don't need one in the first place.

Very nice work on the addition. I think your wife made a good choice by contracting the drywall. After a few diy drywall projects, I think it's one of the best parts to outsource.
Sadly, you'll need all 3, I think. I borroweded another roofing gun, too, but I forget the model- was a DeWalt, IIRC, and took coils of nails. And I plan on borrowing a finishing gun too

Zuph
Jul 24, 2003
Zupht0r 6000 Turbo Type-R

Grover, I've said it before, and I'll say it again: You are an inspiration. After I get out of college, I hope I'll be able to buy some land and build a decent house one it.

So you really just learned everything from code books? I've never cracked open a code book, but it seems like there should be more to determining stuff like how to pour the foundation, or how to frame the thing so it doesn't fall down. I'm going to school for EE, though, so I guess the wiring stuff seems intuitive for me while someone else might just "get" framing.

Propaniac
Nov 28, 2000

SUSHI ROULETTO!


College Slice

grover posted:

Apparently, they size septic fields not based on bathrooms, but on occupancy, which they assume is 2 people per bedroom. Take a bedroom-sized room and add a closet, it's considered a bedroom, regardless of what I plan to use it for because the NEXT guy might use it for a bedroom. No closet, and it doesn't count. I can call it storage/utility/sewing, etc, and that's OK. It's fucked up.

I'm no architect, but does this mean you can just build the room as planned, with a closet-sized niche in the wall, and then when you get the sewer hook-up you can just stick in a curtain rod and put a door on it to make it a closet?

Interesting thread, and it's VERY impressive that you and your wife are doing this yourself. I admit what I'm really looking forward to now is seeing the finished rooms after they're decorated (or at least after they have flooring and wall treatments in there). Please post a full tour after it's done

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