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Kitchen It’s now December, 2006. It’s hard to believe, but we have been working nearly 12 months on the house, and had fully designed our kitchen 21 months before it was ready to install. My wife went back to Lowes and went back over the design again, and we ordered the cabinets. They came in way earlier than we expected, which was awesome. Unfortunately, I was out of the country, 15 time zones away in Guam! We got straight to work when I returned, taking extreme pains with the level, as we wanted these to be absolutely perfect. ![]() Yet another work delay! Oh, will they never end?. ![]() Hanging the first cabinets. ![]() Dammit, I messed up 9 months ago and put the microwave vent and receptacle 6 inches low and had to raise them… Surprisingly, only the first planning screw-up, which I find amazing considering how much we did so far in advance. About this time, I talked to the city to find out when we might be able to hook up to the sewer, and they said we could hook up any time! So, I called the backhoe back and dug a trench which promptly collapsed 30 minutes after he left, burying the pipe in 24” of soppy mud. We fought for 2 hours before calling him back. He came out the next day and re-dug it, and we got the pipes in. I paid a buddy $50 to help me dig a trench in the back yard from the shallow end of the pipe to intercept the septic pipe. ![]() Connecting the addition to city sewer. ![]() My friend and my kids trenching through my wife’s garden. Of course, the city came and failed us. They require a clean-out right at the connection- having one 30’ away at my garage isn’t good enough! So, I climbed in again and put on a cleanout. He failed me again- insisted I HAVE to use a wye and a special 45 degree cast-iron cleanout box (that was hard to find and cost $70!) which I put on, and hooked. This passed. So, we had the septic tank pumped. Then, I ground the teeth off 2 sawzall blades and a hacksaw before breaking 3 metal cutting blades and my circular saw trying to cut the 50-year old cast iron septic pipe. Had to go out and buy an angle grinder to finish it, but got hooked up, and we could flush toilets!!! Of course, the next day it rained and the big trench collapsed and flooded and the pipe floated up and broke. It’s 3 days before Christmas, and I ended up having to go out waist-deep in sewer water and mud with my arms up to my elbows trying to reconnect the pipes underwater- managed to do it and get it covered. And in a case of deja-vu, had my backhoe driver out on Christmas eve filling in the front ditch so the pipe couldn’t float up again. We managed to get all the cabinets in the week before Christmas, and ordered the counter. Last year, they’d told us 6-10 weeks, but this time they said it would only take 7-10 days! And we got even luckier- they had a cancellation and they brought our new counter in just 2 days after we ordered it, and in time for Christmas! So, we didn’t quite cook Christmas dinner in the new kitchen, but we were able to prepare a lot of it. And we did cook our first meal in our new kitchen 2 days later- pizza on the pizzaz pizza oven! ![]() Cabinets and counter fully installed before Christmas! Which brings us up-to-date. I took these next photos just 5 minutes ago. We’ve got the dishwasher in, the faucet in the new sink the garbage disposal moved (gaping hole in the old sink now) and this half of the kitchen is fully operational! We’re in the middle of installing laminate wood flooring- as soon as we’ve got enough, we’ll install the oven and bring the refrigerator over, and we’ll be completely moved! I might move the microwave yet tonight. ![]() Old disposal moved to new sink, and everything plumbed up! ![]() Dishwasher faucet, and flooring. And check out the coolass puck lights over and under the upper cabinets! All this kitchen is missing is the crown molding and kick-trim… Edit: Next update is on Page 4. grover fucked around with this message at Jul 8, 2007 around 09:57 |
# ? Dec 30, 2006 21:40 |
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Zuph posted:Grover, I've said it before, and I'll say it again: You are an inspiration. After I get out of college, I hope I'll be able to buy some land and build a decent house one it.
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# ? Dec 30, 2006 21:40 |
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This looks great grover. I just did the same thing over my summer, albeit on a smaller scale. It's so rewarding when you get it all done, and you can look at it all and say "I did that."
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# ? Dec 30, 2006 21:41 |
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Propaniac posted:I'm no architect, but does this mean you can just build the room as planned, with a closet-sized niche in the wall, and then when you get the sewer hook-up you can just stick in a curtain rod and put a door on it to make it a closet? The copy of the plans stamped by the building inspector: closets hmmm... ![]() grover fucked around with this message at Dec 30, 2006 around 21:53 |
# ? Dec 30, 2006 21:45 |
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Jerk detected! This user is on your ignore list, click to view post anyway |
# ? Dec 30, 2006 21:48 |
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Well done. I don't think I would be able to plan a project of that size. I am having a hard enough time just finishing my basement.
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# ? Dec 30, 2006 21:55 |
You do all this, and still have time to argue in D&D? Well done Grover!
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# ? Dec 30, 2006 22:00 |
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That's really great, the regular part of the house looks like the addition! The one and only thing I wanted to say was on your manufactured joists, where you drilled and ran plumbing, always drill right in the vertical center of the beam, there's no strength there anyway. As you remove material closer to the top or bottom it can fail much easier than in the center, just from the distribution of the bending moment. Compression at the top, and tension at the bottom, but in the center there is nothing, a neutral axis.
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# ? Dec 30, 2006 22:01 |
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A few things that would probably have made things easier include: Building the raked wall(s) with the rest of your first floor walls. Sheathing your walls before you stood them. Lifting all these heavy walls with wall jacks which make it so 1 person can lift a 2000 lb wall if they take their time. Building a ramp down the middle of the second storey at wall height and getting all your trusses craned up in one lift onto the roof. The outside walls hold the tails of the trusses up and the ramp supports the peaks while allowing you an easy place to walk on to stand the trusses. This allows 1 person to easily run the peak off of it while another person nails the trusses down at the wall, because doing all of this off ladders is time consuming and a pain in the ass. Renting proper tools for the jobs. I realise that you aren't working for anybody so that saving as much time as possible isn't nearly as large a priority, but air tools save so much time that buying/renting them pays for itself. Having a stapler/nailer to attach sheathing and to rail your walls together makes life so much easier and the job go so much quicker. All of these things make life easier for me every day. I'd really like to know if you had thought of any of them and if they would have been feasible for you. I've been in the trade for about 6 years now so I know a fair amount at least on the carpentry side of things and I often think about building my own house someday so seeing things like this is quite informative to me so I hope I'm being helpful to you.
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# ? Dec 30, 2006 22:09 |
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StormDrain posted:That's really great, the regular part of the house looks like the addition! ![]() For drilling holes in dimensional lumber, you're absolutely right- it makes a BIG difference where you drill a hole in a 2x6 or 2x8. And I really really hate to see people notching them! We really tried hard to make the addition match the house. Our siding guys did a great job finding a very close match for siding, which is apparently intentionally changed every few years to force people into replacing ALL their siding instead of just patching... One problem we ran into was FEMA's flood zone regulations changed after Katrina- they now require all structures to be not above flood stage, but 1' above flood stage! Unfortunately, my existing house is 3" above 8'5 above sea level (50 year flood level for here) but it needs to be 12" above that. SO, instead of the hall flowing straight into the new addition, there are steps and a 9" rise, which sucks, but what can you do... grover fucked around with this message at Dec 30, 2006 around 22:27 |
# ? Dec 30, 2006 22:18 |
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MrGunner posted:Great suggestions ![]() That truss ramp is a great idea! I wish we'd have thought of it- the 2x sticks weren't hard to use, though. As for the crane, grrrr- I ASSUMED they'd be delivered to the 2nd floor, not brought on a flatbed. Made an ass out of u and me, though. As for tools, that's one place I didn't skimp. We already had: Radial arm saw Scroll saw Circular saw 18V cordless drill Lots of hole saws Slew of electrical tools Framing square drywall square Clamps galore Jigzaw 6', 8' & 10' stepladders level laser levels I borrowed: Compressor Framing nailgun Roofing nailgun Trailer PEX crimpers, 1/2" and 3/4" We bought: Good hammers Good gloves (went through several pairs!) Milwaukee Sawzall Compound-miter saw with laser New corded heavy-duty rotary/hammer drill 100' tape measure 5/8" bit (good one too, for boring electrical holes) flooring tap-blocks 24' extension ladder 500W light 1000W light (actually 2 500W lights) angle grinder circular saw with laser
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# ? Dec 30, 2006 22:38 |
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Actually that reminded me of another thing that I had noticed. When we balloon frame interior walls we usually build normal height walls then frame them up to the ceiling later as it's less hassle and easier to do. This way also gives you more support for the trusses before they are stood.
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# ? Dec 30, 2006 22:45 |
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I didn't understand 90% of the technical terms you used, but I'm still in awe. I can't build a doghouse that will stand for more than a day.
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# ? Dec 30, 2006 22:45 |
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MrGunner posted:Actually that reminded me of another thing that I had noticed. When we balloon frame interior walls we usually build normal height walls then frame them up to the ceiling later as it's less hassle and easier to do. This way also gives you more support for the trusses before they are stood. Also, isn't the definition of balloon framing that you *don't* break the wall in the middile? ![]() grover fucked around with this message at Dec 30, 2006 around 23:04 |
# ? Dec 30, 2006 22:50 |
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Hey grover I've got these plans here in my head for about a 1500sq ft addition...ya, lemme know when you want to vacation in Oklahoma. Awesome work so far, so inspiring. Definitely looking forward to the final tour of the house.
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# ? Dec 30, 2006 22:58 |
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Beyond awesome. It's gonna be so cool when it's done and you can say "I built this goddamn thing. I rock."
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# ? Dec 30, 2006 23:03 |
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grover posted:When that wall acts as a diaphram, it will fail where the plates are joined- 20lbs per square foot wind or seismic load puts a LOT of stress on a 17' long 2x stud as it is. This might be a code variance as I live in Canada in an area where we don't have to worry about hurricanes or tornadoes but since the only load points of vaulted scissor trusses is on the exterior walls the only purpose of interior walls is to seperate space and hold plumbing and electrical. Therefore we pretty much build interior walls however we want as long as it doesn't make the drywallers job difficult because they are prone to whining excessively.
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# ? Dec 30, 2006 23:09 |
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The best part about this is that you've demonstrated that anyone if they're willing to learn and work hard can do the same thing. You don't have to hire contractors who will screw you if you're dilligent enough to spend the time and energy to understand code and construction, and in many cases, it might get the job done a lot sooner than if you had hired professionals. I think this is awesome. I've been doing this kind of stuff for years in various degrees and your story is inspiring! By the way, I am blown away by how much work your wife contributed. I hope she gets as much credit as you for making this dream a reality. She definitely deserves it!
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# ? Dec 30, 2006 23:10 |
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Oh, here's another photo of the sewer hookup. We built up a new levee and drained the ditch so we could backfill- all that mud you see collapsed in the 24 hours after I reconnected the pipe underwater. That's solid boot-stealing mud about 48" deep right there!![]() Here's the trench through my wife's garden, complete with installed sewer pipe: ![]() Man, I can't even type right anymore. I was going to try to get some more flooring in, but think I aught to stop working tonight, too. grover fucked around with this message at Dec 31, 2006 around 20:44 |
# ? Dec 30, 2006 23:10 |
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MrGunner posted:This might be a code variance as I live in Canada in an area where we don't have to worry about hurricanes or tornadoes but since the only load points of vaulted scissor trusses is on the exterior walls the only purpose of interior walls is to seperate space and hold plumbing and electrical. Therefore we pretty much build interior walls however we want as long as it doesn't make the drywallers job difficult because they are prone to whining excessively. For me, 110mph winds (correlating to a category 3 hurricane) create a maximum force of -20psf within 4' of the corners of the building. Elsewhere it's a max +15psf. Once you drop below 80/90mph or so, the structural requirements drop dramatically and you don't need to do much special to meet wind loading- hurricane straps on the roof is pretty much sufficient, but the same rules for good construction still apply. Surprisingly, the techniques for building seismic-resistant structures are practically identical to hurricane resistant structures. grover fucked around with this message at Dec 30, 2006 around 23:17 |
# ? Dec 30, 2006 23:14 |
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You need to get one of these bad boys before you tackle any more big framing projects. edit: it looks like you and your wife have done an outstanding job. Sideshow Bob fucked around with this message at Dec 30, 2006 around 23:22 |
# ? Dec 30, 2006 23:19 |
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Man someday your future family is going to have a house that they can say their dad built by hand, and that is pretty awesome. It just isn't something people do anymore.
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# ? Dec 30, 2006 23:21 |
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Sideshow Bob posted:You need to get one of these bad boys before you tackle any more big framing projects. Impulse nailers are handy and all but they are no where near as nice to have as an air nailer and a fair bit more expensive. I love my impulse though because there is nothing better for running the peak of the roof.
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# ? Dec 30, 2006 23:24 |
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i always love these types of posts its always neat to see the kinds of experiments fellow goons are up to.
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# ? Dec 30, 2006 23:26 |
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Maybe I missed reading over it, did you contract out the siding just because you and your wife didn't want to do it? Although it was only a single story house, my grandfather and I easily sided his house by ourselves.
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# ? Dec 30, 2006 23:35 |
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You are truly a real American hero. I helped install some drywall and test electrical connections in an addition my dad installed when I was 12 or so, but this is ridiculous.![]() ![]()
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# ? Dec 30, 2006 23:39 |
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bairfanx posted:Maybe I missed reading over it, did you contract out the siding just because you and your wife didn't want to do it? Although it was only a single story house, my grandfather and I easily sided his house by ourselves. This is difficult to do 20' in the air with a single extension ladder on uneven ground. ![]() If it was 1-story, yeah, I'd have done the siding myself!
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# ? Dec 30, 2006 23:40 |
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This is pretty awesome. I usually go out and do workcamps over the summer, but I haven't made any plans to do so yet. This thread has reminded me to look into it. The first year I went, I was thrown into one of the biggest projects anybody in the group had ever done - double wide trailer home needs a new room addition, completely re-sided, and re-roofing a tin roof. In a week. That was pretty fun. The following year consisted of painting and caulking, but the year after that we made a kicking rad wheelchair ramp for a VFW post. The ramp stands out as one of the most satisfying things I've ever done, because the guys there were so happy to have it. Your addition looks downright amazing so far, and it looks like you've had a decent amount of fun doing it, despite all the hard work involved.
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# ? Dec 30, 2006 23:49 |
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Zilduar posted:This is pretty awesome. I usually go out and do workcamps over the summer, but I haven't made any plans to do so yet. This thread has reminded me to look into it. The first year I went, I was thrown into one of the biggest projects anybody in the group had ever done - double wide trailer home needs a new room addition, completely re-sided, and re-roofing a tin roof. In a week. I've done something similar the last few years with a group that builds churches. I feel the OP's pain on the roofing, decking and whatnot (that's all they let unskilled guys like me touch) We've done projects of similar scope to grover's, only with about 60 guys in ten days. I'm amazed at what you've done in a year, considering most DIY houses and extensions people I know have done have taken 2-5 years. I love the new kitchen to!
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# ? Dec 31, 2006 00:23 |
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Looks great Grover. As Hemogoblin said, amazing what you can do while still being active over in D&D. Congrats on the place.
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# ? Dec 31, 2006 00:41 |
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Hey, this is pretty amazing, thank you very much for posting this.
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# ? Dec 31, 2006 00:45 |
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As This Old House being one of my favorite shows I can honestly say this was one hour past my bed time well spent. I can't wait to see it when it's all finished. For the time being, can we get some more pictures from the outside?
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# ? Dec 31, 2006 00:59 |
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Completely awe-inspiring. Everything about it. Maybe you can offer some advice here. Last year I bought an older (built in the 1940s) Cape Cod style house in New York's Hudson Valley. It's a fantastic location and we've got a big back yard. Thing is, the house is a small 2 bedroom 1 bathroom jobber, and we're going to grow out of it sooner or later. I would love to put an addition out the back with a nice sized living room on the bottom floor and a bedroom/bathroom on top. What should I be aware of? Is there any place I can get a ballpark estimate about what I'd be looking at, and who are the kinds of people I would want to talk to? I have no intentions of doing this any time within the next say... 3 years, but it's something on the horizon. Any advice would be great.
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# ? Dec 31, 2006 01:05 |
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Impressive!
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# ? Dec 31, 2006 01:12 |
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I've done a little bit of construction work. Good job, grover, I can begin to appreciate all the work that you've done - this on top of a regular job as well! I'm impressed with all the work your wife did as well, as another person had mentioned - her staying up till 2am to get the hot water working was really touching, she sounds like a wonderful woman. Love her well ![]() That aside, you've done an amazing job. Wish you the best!
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# ? Dec 31, 2006 02:19 |
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what the christ posted:As This Old House being one of my favorite shows I can honestly say this was one hour past my bed time well spent. I can't wait to see it when it's all finished. For the time being, can we get some more pictures from the outside? ![]() ![]() grover fucked around with this message at Dec 31, 2006 around 20:45 |
# ? Dec 31, 2006 09:12 |
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bisticles posted:Completely awe-inspiring. Everything about it. What's the impact going to be from the addition- are rooms going to be unusable during construction? How long are you going to be without a roof? Etc. If you're going to DIY, the best way to figure out cost is to add up each and every little bit, which is tough to do. Another way is to figure $30-100 per square foot. Chose high to be conservative! My addition cost $40/sqft ($31/sqft if you don't count the kitchen). Most new homes run better than $100sqft these days, though, so if you're contracting out, figure high. You're not going to get the best contract prices doing a single room- for instance, I had 150 4x12' plasterboards hung for $10/bd, but I got the economy of scale- nobody's going to come out for $50 to do 5 boards. Don't forget to consider delivery fees, too! Each truck from Home Depot will run you about $60, regardless of how much or how little is on it... grover fucked around with this message at Dec 31, 2006 around 09:24 |
# ? Dec 31, 2006 09:20 |
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And to think I was so proud of myself for tiling my kitchen counters and replacing the sink, cooktop and hood with no prior experience. You've done what looks like a terrific job and I am quite impressed. Thanks for sharing the story and photos!
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# ? Dec 31, 2006 09:47 |
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Do you have plans to fix up your backyard next? I think putting in a patio or garden where all that mud is now would really be the finishing touch on your project. And what was it like getting that insured?
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# ? Dec 31, 2006 10:13 |
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Jerk detected! This user is on your ignore list, click to view post anyway |
# ? Dec 31, 2006 10:29 |
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