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grover
Jan 22, 2002

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tigro posted:

looking over your duct design, I noticed that you seem to be missing return ducts. to have to heat or cool 100% Outside air all the time can be very expensive.
Thanks for your feedback I do have a single 20x20" return duct- it's just very short, about 1 foot I'd have made it larger, but that's the already larger than the air handler, and it didn't make much sense to expand it much for such a short run. Most single-zone houses I've seen only have one main return duct that all the house's air filters back to- the small size of homes, coupled with large hallways to act as natural return makes this feasible. Closed doors to bedrooms do tend to stifle this, we have this problem in the existing half of our house. It's all closed-loop, there is no outside air vent into the system besides leakage- again, common in homes. We could always crack the window beside the return if we wanted, though.

Return duct location- presently stuffed with blankets to cut out drafts to/from the garage.

Anyhow, I chose the return duct location to try to evenly draw air from the kitchen, dining room and family room, and positioned the supply ducts opposite this to create as much efficiency as possible. The bedrooms have a natural supply path through the hallway, but this only works if the doors are open. I do worry a bit about noise transmission through such a short run, but I'm betting (literally!) that the fan will be quiet enough so as not to bother us.

The exhaust fan in my bathroom is intermittant- I expect it will only be used during showers. I forget the speed, but I think it was 60cfm or so (it's just above code minimum), which would be 10 changes an hour while the fan is running, and of course 0 when it's not.

I work as an EE, but my degree is electromechanical; I'm pretty up on HVAC design theory in general, I just don't have much practical expeerience...

Oh, here's an annoted mess (most of the duct work looks more traditional!):


All the fittings are sheet metal, and duct is R6 Flex Duct, stretched as taught as possible and attached with tye wraps and 181 tape. Flex bends are minimized- I put in metal 90s whenever I had to make hard bends.

grover fucked around with this message at Jan 1, 2007 around 13:46

blixa
Jan 9, 2006

Kein bestandteil sein

Wow, this is absolutely amazing. I can only think about the value of the house now compared to when you bought it. If you ever feel you wish to sell your baby, you'll probably make loads for it

Incredible work. I applaud you, but I refuse to use that stupid "bravo" smily.

Olzi
Oct 25, 2006
-nt-

So, you doing any lan/ethernet wiring ?

grover
Jan 22, 2002

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grover on page 1 posted:

Yes, sort of. I ran Cable TV cable to the living room, sewing room, dining room and garage (can't go without a TV in the garage!) and was considering running cat5, but there was really no good place to run it to. The switch is in the den, but the walls are inaccessible. I figured, the way wifi is going, I don't really need to worry about it.

I did, however, use all the cat5 I'd dumster-dove for to hook up the phones So there IS some cat5 in the walls, but it's pretty useless as far as networks go. Ironically, we don't even have a house phone anymore. I have no idea if the phones I hooked up work or not.
I could have run it from all the rooms into one of the closets upstairs to put a switch in, since the location of a switch is pretty arbitrary, and the actual router/broadband modem could go anywhere. But half the house would still be unwired, including the den, which is where we plan on keeping the main computer. The only other place I'd consider wiring up is the entertainment center (to hook up a DVR with a megabit connection back to my PC for speedy transfers), but it backs up right to the attic, so I can easily retrofit a lan connection there if I ever get motivated enough to fish a drop to my den.

My cabled LAN at present consists of a cable running along the baseboard from my den to my ReplayTV in the living room, about 20' away. Everything else is 802.11g and that's working great so far.

grover fucked around with this message at Jan 1, 2007 around 14:36

tour de horse
Oct 4, 2006
Ship Shape

This thread is amazing. Thanks, and I wish you luck on the rest of it.

Error 404 NpH
Nov 26, 2000



grover posted:


Another view of the kitchen, from the doorway to the old house.

Im curious as to why you kept the white dish washer while updating everything else and getting a black stove/microwave.


That being said, from watching home shows apparently if you unscrew the big white panel from the dishwasher there are usually other color inserts behind it or its reversible to make it black. Give it a try and see if its true

grover
Jan 22, 2002

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Error 404 NpH posted:

Im curious as to why you kept the white dish washer while updating everything else and getting a black stove/microwave.


That being said, from watching home shows apparently if you unscrew the big white panel from the dishwasher there are usually other color inserts behind it or its reversible to make it black. Give it a try and see if its true
Our old stove was a real piece of shit, I think it was left at the house before they remodeled it, which would make it late 70s/early 80s. It worked, but we all hated it. Speaking of which, it still works- anyone want to buy it? $50 and I'll give you a tour for free!

Anyhow, for the new kitchen, we splurged!. We had the microwave and dishwasher from before. If/when we replace them, we'll probably get a black dishwasher to match. but it's not really a high priority. The fridge (white) is a really nice one we got about 2 years ago when our old fridge died, and won't be replaced anytime soon.

Our old kitchen wasn't built for a dishwasher- we had to buy a portable dishwasher and hook it up to the sink (I put in a garbage disposal the same time we plumbed it up) which looked like crap, but at least gave us another 2' of counter space Luckily, once all the stuff was taken off, the portable dishwasher was able to be converted into a built-in.

We could probably change the color by changing the door panel. We really no need to get the right kick-plate. It's about 5 or 6 years old, now, so I'm not sure if either is availible...

grover fucked around with this message at Jan 1, 2007 around 14:49

Retarded Pimp
Jun 2, 2002



Great work, Grover.

Is it possible to get a closer pic of how the countertop fits and looks? That quartz looks like what I'd like to put in my kitchen if/when I redo my cabinets once the kids are older and out of the house.

Error 404 NpH
Nov 26, 2000



grover posted:

We could probably change the color by changing the door panel. We really no need to get the right kick-plate. It's about 5 or 6 years old, now, so I'm not sure if either is availible...

I see, but I was saying you might already have the black panels on the reverse side of the white ones.

grover
Jan 22, 2002

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Retarded Pimp posted:

Great work, Grover.

Is it possible to get a closer pic of how the countertop fits and looks? That quartz looks like what I'd like to put in my kitchen if/when I redo my cabinets once the kids are older and out of the house.
You can check out the floor models at Lowes and Home Depot first-hand. They're notoriously sloppily installed in their floor demos, though, so don't fret too much over the finer details. Here are two detail photos of mine:




The brown of this shade (Welshpool Black) really stands out in close-ups, but in person, it's very subtle, and serves more just to soften the black. Looks GREAT, I think

Error 404 NpH posted:

I see, but I was saying you might already have the black panels on the reverse side of the white ones.
Ah. But, nope, they're not reversible. The kick-piece is solid white plastic, and the upper one has all the (white) buttons integrated into a white control panel. The white metal sheet could be, I didn't tear it apart, but it would look even worse if that was the only black piece on it.

grover fucked around with this message at Jan 1, 2007 around 14:46

Retarded Pimp
Jun 2, 2002



Yea, I've noticed that at most of their displays, that's partially why I asked for pics of an actual install.
Thank you.

Messadiah
Jan 11, 2001



Why is there a notch in that 2nd photo of the countertop?

grover
Jan 22, 2002

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Messadiah posted:

Why is there a notch in that 2nd photo of the countertop?
Most of the back of the counter will be hidden by the backsplash- only the corners will be visible. So, they cut the counters intentionally with a 1/16" gap everywhere but on the corners, to make sure that there is a tight seamless fit where it will be visible.

Password
Mar 14, 2001
Forum Veteran

Very cool - I'm looking to do a similar addition on my house (garage w/ 2nd story). Can you show some of your plans for the building permit? I'm not sure what level of detail I need to have for this.

Also, can you detail how you tied into the existing structure? I see that you built an additional wall there, not just using the existing wall.

Slippery
May 16, 2004



Muscles Boxcar

Hey, Grover, that's awesome. Beautiful work. Nicely done and better you than me, personally I have to hire professionals for that sort of thing...anyway, awesome job!

grover
Jan 22, 2002

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Password posted:

Very cool - I'm looking to do a similar addition on my house (garage w/ 2nd story). Can you show some of your plans for the building permit? I'm not sure what level of detail I need to have for this.

Also, can you detail how you tied into the existing structure? I see that you built an additional wall there, not just using the existing wall.
You'll have to talk to your city and find out what they want. Mine didn't so much as glance at any of my construction details- the zoning guy looked pretty closely at the rough sketch I'd done on my survey to make sure I was within the setbacks, and the building permit guy browsed through the floor-plans and said "you need to put smoke alarms here, here and here, and make sure these two windows by the doors are tempered" and let me go with that. They glanced briefly at the DWV iso (I posted the "permit copy" of it on page 1) but I don't think they looked at my electrical plans before giving me an electrical permit. They certainly didn't look hard at the DWV iso, as there were several glaring code violations on it!

You'll have to find out what they want for inspections, too. In my city, they want a 10' column of water for a pressure test of the pipes, so you have to plan ahead and put in test caps/fittings. They only required me to test my water pipes with city water at normal pressure (EG, hook up and make sure there aren't any squirts or drips) but they usually require PEX to be pressure-tested with air to 150psi for 5 minutes.

Also, inexplicably, they did NOT want to do a framing inspection! They insisted we have a complete weather seal (EG, roof, siding, windows) & insulation installed before the "combination" inspection, which not only hides everything important, like sheathing and hurricane straps, but also makes it REALLY damned difficult to fix any problems that might pop up. I was lucky in that while I was roofing the little stub of a roof on the front of my house, one of the building inspectors was driving past and shouted out something like "It's coming along!"- I came down and chatted with him for a minute and he did a quick run-through and pointed out some things he didn't like, which I was able to fix- double jack studs under doubled joists, and solid 2x fireblock in the balloon walls and along the stairs.

Edit: Oh, and the tie-in with the existing house! In my case, I decided it was easier just to put in a 2nd wall, as I would have had to dick too much with the roof to try to tie straight in; the existing footer wasn't really built for a 2-story house, either. This will also allow for the settling in the addition to (hopefuly) be even. I ended up undercutting my foundation and pouring a new footer about a foot deeper than the old footer, which the masons blocked up, with a 1" gap. Wasn't enough- the existing wall bowed in 1.5" which ended up messing with my new walls too, which sucked You can't tell in the finished house, but it was readily apparent when hanging the kitchen cabinets, and it still bothers me that my wall isn't perfectly plumb! The two walls are nailed together at several places, most notably, I nailed the the ceiling in the old kitchen to the header I put on the new wall when I broke the new opening between the two. I placed a 2x6 above the existing joists in the attic, used 16D nails to nail through to the new triped 2x12 header, and put on hurricane straps to support the existing joists. Then I knocked out the 2x4s holding the ceiling up. So, essentially, the ceiling is now suspected by hurricane straps from a board nailed through sheating into the other wall! I hope there isn't much settlings between the walls, heh.

grover fucked around with this message at Jan 1, 2007 around 19:42

Slippy
Mar 13, 2005
LA CERVEZA MAS FINA

what do you know about building a residence with just concrete and rebar?

grover
Jan 22, 2002

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Slippy posted:

what do you know about building a residence with just concrete and rebar?
You talking pre-cast, ICF, CMUs or cast-in-place? I probably know more than the average layman, but not enough to build with confidence.

Adnar
Jul 11, 2002



Did this put much of a strain on life in general (especially with your wife I guess)?

I just spent an hour reading this whole thread and I am glad I did. Learnt a lot about the process of building, thanks for posting this.

grover
Jan 22, 2002

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Adnar posted:

Did this put much of a strain on life in general (especially with your wife I guess)?
At times, yes, but mostly we enjoyed working together on it! We're both very complementary in our skills- we're both very hand, but our strengths and weaknesses mesh almost perfectly.

Agent019
Jun 27, 2002
LOL, ONLY DUMB PEOPLE WORK AT MCDONALD'S
Get over yourself, douchebag.

grover posted:

At times, yes, but mostly we enjoyed working together on it! We're both very complementary in our skills- we're both very hand, but our strengths and weaknesses mesh almost perfectly.

I was gonna suggest you head over to Home Depot and get some of the day workers there to help but you seem to have this together. Looks great from what I can tell. I have built 2 houses from scratch and this looks pretty solid.

grover
Jan 22, 2002

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We've started on the tile! Got a lot of it cut, and a lot of is masticed in place. Still have to grout yet, though:


Working on the tile...


I can't wait to see what this looks like with the tile finished and trim up!

I got two of my Roombas working again too! Not sure what was wrong with the one, as I know it was broken when I set it aside but I didn't do anything to it and it seems to be working fine now. I'm thinking it might have just been a bad battery, but I haven't fully troubleshot it yet. I started dismantling the other to replace the smashed plastic on the bumper (I think the kids jumped on it when they were playign "lets jump over roomba while mommy and daddy scream at us to stop!") but ended up fixing it with crazy glue instead. It seems to get stuck too easy now, though, so I might still have some more work to do. The 3rd Roomba is definitely going to be the part donor, it's got a bad charger and a bad sweeper segment. Here they are cleaning the laminite floor we've got completed so far:


Dueling Roombas!

grover fucked around with this message at Jan 7, 2007 around 10:06

LightI3ulb
Oct 28, 2006

Standard pleasure model.


Where do you live?

EDIT: Nevermind, I just realized that it's in your profile.

SaltyDawg
May 2, 2005


grover posted:

Dueling Roombas!

You have three. Don't they cost 200 each? Sounds like the reliablility is for shit, except for kids jumping on them.

Also your project is very similar to a buddy of mine. He bought a very small home that was old and had terrible additions put on. He basically built (a contractor actually) a McMansion around the old home. Total investment including the old home and land was about 300k, new value is probably double that. Also his land seems to be below sea level like yours. He is probably your neighbor.

grover
Jan 22, 2002

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SaltyDawg posted:

You have three. Don't they cost 200 each? Sounds like the reliablility is for shit, except for kids jumping on them.
Roomba Red costs $150. They're fucking awesome too, A+++++ cannot live without! Unfortunately, they're extremely complicated pieces of equipment with very little by the way of user servicible parts and have a terrible tendancy to work fine for 6 months and then die for no apparent reason This was fine so long as I had the replacement plan at Sears, but upon trying to get my 3rd Roomba, they told me they no longer sold the $150 Roomba Red, only the $300 Roomba Discovery (same roomba, just more expensive), and that they had wised up and no longer offered the replacement plan... They DID however give me a full refund! So that was pretty awesome- 2 years of Roomba use for free Unfortunately, every other store in the area who sold Roomba gave me the same story- no longer carry the cheap one, and don't offer the extended warranty. I ended up buying the last Roomba Red in hampton roads at a Circuit City about 20 minutes away. It lasted about 3 months, heh.

The other two were my dad's. He was so impressed with mine, he HAD to get one- it broke, so he bought another. When it broke, just gave them both to me where they've been sitting in a pile for the last 12 months, waiting for me to get around to trying to fix them.

grover fucked around with this message at Jan 7, 2007 around 11:42

Graves
Feb 10, 2002

Ask me about the time I posted a thread in GBS with a full confession on how I stabbed a man to death with my pocket knife

I'm incredibly jealous that you have a wife willing to do those things with you.

Go go construction goons.

The Human Cow
May 23, 2004

hurry up

This is so cool. Everything looks great. Hopefully one day when I own a house I'll have the initiative and knowledge on how to do something like this. Good luck with the rest!

grover
Jan 22, 2002

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Another update, no pictures this time though (maybe tomorrow if people insist). We've been kinda lazy this week. Got the floor finished, but the tile work is stalled. Cleaned out the garage and made a huge pile of debris (mostly cardboard boxes from the kitchen) on the curb- we'll call for a bulk track pickup from the city.

The backhoe guy showed up with no morning first thing yesterday morning to fill in the septic tank and regrade our backyard. Apparently he worked real late last night and fell asleep in the wal-mart parking lot, then came straight to our place. We busted our ass cleaning up the backyard and taking down our fences, moving the grill and lawnmower and everything else- only to find him fast asleep in his truck! He slept until like 1:00, left for lunch, and returned right about dusk where he caved in the septic tank and then did half of a half-assed job regrading the yard before quitting for the night, complaining about the mud. I had some words with him this morning when I was able to see the shitty job in the daylight. I hope he makes it back before it rains, or it's going to be a fucking mudfarm back there again!

Edit: OK, maybe 1 picture:

grover fucked around with this message at Jan 14, 2007 around 19:15

Cock_Push-UPS
Aug 29, 2004
It's when you lay down and let your boner push you up, COCK PUSH-UPS

Nice job on the whole thing. You are a little more brave than I. We are doing a complete gut and rebuild on our second floor. Sucks to try and live there and work on it when there is nothing.


I recognize these plumbing pics.

grover
Jan 22, 2002

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Cock_Push-UPS posted:

I recognize these plumbing pics.
I posted those in Pappy's plumbing thread a few months ago, yep! Good luck with your project!! Adding an addition is one thing, but I don't think I'd want to do a serious remodel in our living spaces....

PainterofCrap
Oct 16, 2002

Hey bebe



Nice job, Grover.

I only have to deal with sand here in South Jersey. That mud looks like seven kinds of hell.

I got caught by the township in October, two years after they signed off on my garage. I had run plumbing, electric & a woodstove after I was told I was done with the code folks. I don't know what prompted them to come back, I know my neighbors & it wasn't them; maybe it really was a p/w SNAFU like they told me.

I tore out the plumbing before they re-inspected, and they made me get electric & fire permits. No fines & they didn't shut of my electric (both minor miracles). I should finish the punchlist & get them off my back by the end of May.

(edit - electric, not plumbing)

PainterofCrap fucked around with this message at Jan 14, 2007 around 22:43

3s Box
Sep 30, 2004

by Fistgrrl


Nice work. Love the look of the kitchen.

This has kind of been a reminder of my past year. My parents started building a new house and I've been helping them in my spare time. I always avoided ladders and power tools before I started, but I learned by necessity. Lots of digging, lots of crazy days. We're getting close, within a couple months from completion. The house is quite something else, when I realized that their deck will be about the same dimensions as my two bedroom apartment.

Tux Racer
Dec 23, 2005


I would say that I don't agree with the white dishwasher, but it's not my house. In any perspective, very nice job, dude. Not many people are able to do what you did. Also what kind of furniture do you plan on getting?

grover
Jan 22, 2002

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Thanks, Baskil

PainterofCrap posted:

I got caught by the township in October, two years after they signed off on my garage. I had run plumbing, electric & a woodstove after I was told I was done with the code folks. I don't know what prompted them to come back, I know my neighbors & it wasn't them; maybe it really was a p/w SNAFU like they told me.
hahaha, oops! That reminds me of another anecdote- when I called to schedule the HVAC rough-in inspection, I found out I'd never pulled a permit! It was only then that I remembered we weren't sure if we were going to put in a fireplace or not and put off the mechanical permit until we made a decision... City didn't care, I went down and pulled a permit after all the work was 100% complete, and scheduled it for the next morning. I guess they forgave me for intent as I wasn't trying to cheat the system or anything.

What's the fine for that anyhow, isn't it a slap on the wrist? I'm certainly violating my lack of an occupancy permit right now, but I really don't think they care. Or at least hope not!

mykuhl posted:

I would say that I don't agree with the white dishwasher, but it's not my house. In any perspective, very nice job, dude. Not many people are able to do what you did. Also what kind of furniture do you plan on getting?
Well, we're using what we have; it's not worth $300 for us to replace a working dishwasher with a black one. We'd probably go for black if/when it dies.

grover fucked around with this message at Jan 14, 2007 around 22:39

Inveigle
Jan 19, 2004



Hi Grover -- I just came across your posts tonight. What a fantastic house addition!

I'm hoping to build a new garage eventually that would be similar to yours: two-story with a large room in the back and two garage doors in the front (only there would be a small kitchen and bath upstairs). Seeing your design for the stairway helped me solve the problem of how to do the stairs (it never occurred to me to have a turn in the stairs, halfway up). I was hoping that you'd have posted more diagrams of your design as I was curious what the stairway looked like in the upstairs part of the addition.

DLCinferno
Feb 21, 2003

Happy

You've done an amazing job, it looks great. I could never even contemplate undertaking something like this myself.

Any idea on how much money you saved by doing it all yourself?

economy car
Aug 17, 2004


baskil posted:

Nice work. Love the look of the kitchen.

My mom would freak out if she saw that, it looks like what she'd do to ours if we had more space between our cabinets and counters. I live in a nice, new suburban house, but I'm really impressed with how much better your home-built design looks! One or both of you have a real eye for aesthetics.

LloydDobler
Oct 14, 2005

You shared it with a dick.



Cybernetic Crumb

grover posted:

Mostly intuition, I guess. None of this stuff is rocket science, and normal people do it all the time.
One of my favorite quotes about any work like this is to simply say "High school dropouts can do this for a living, it can't be that hard."

grover posted:

I had a few questions that I posted to DIY forums, but to be honest, it wasn't very helpful, they were mostly all "that's beyond a DIY job, you need to hire a pro!"

Shit, I was one of them! I remember when you posted here about where to buy HVAC supplies and I was all "pfft just hire a pro". I apologize for ever doubting you. You've done an amazing thing here.

I did a facelift on an 800 square foot townhouse this fall, and I only worked on it for a solid two months in my spare time, and burned the hell out. All I did was paint every surface in the house, new kitchen counters, a stainless steel panel on 1 kitchen wall, some plumbing repairs, and new fixtures and a tile floor in the bathroom. I refreshed all the electrical outlets as well. I thought it was a huge problem when I had a two square foot section of dry rot in the bathroom floor.

Anyway, I just this minute pulled all my house paint out of my freezing garage to thaw it out and hope it's still good. All I have left to do is paint 7 doors and touch up the minor fuckups, and I've been putting it off since October. You have inspired me.

Afer seeing what you've done... I don't wear a hat but if I did it would be all the way off to you, sir.

Also I can't think of a house I've ever lived in that had HVAC returns in the bedrooms, I think the gap at the bottom of the door is sufficient for circulation.

One more thing: Making your walls 6" and putting attic blanket in them is a very smart move. My parents did that on a 2400 square foot house, and their heat bill is like 20 bucks a month. It's amazing.

LloydDobler fucked around with this message at Jan 15, 2007 around 01:17

RusteJuxx
Jul 14, 2001



College Slice

This is so awesome. I'd love to do something like this whenever I get my own home. I'm such a huge Home and Garden whore though that I might spend myself in to unbelievable debt to make my house really bad ass.

About the Roombas; if you have a Bed Bath and Beyond nearby check there. When I still worked there a year or so ago they started selling Roombas. They take back anything that you buy there so if it dies you can bring it back 3 months down the line or 10 years down the line.

grover
Jan 22, 2002

PEW PEW PEW







LloydDobler posted:

Shit, I was one of them! I remember when you posted here about where to buy HVAC supplies and I was all "pfft just hire a pro". I apologize for ever doubting you. You've done an amazing thing here.
heh Well, maybe you guys can still help, I'm about ready to mount the units and fab up the ductboard- My next major task i to mount the air handler in my garage and I'm torn on how to mount it. Should I just whip something up out of 2x4s, build a 2x4 & plywood shelf, or should I use steel angle? What should I use for sound isolation to support it? I don't have any of those little wood blocks with the rubber edging. I was thinking pieces of pipe insulation.

I'd bought an overflow tray for it, but this is in my garage and it's not necessary.

grover fucked around with this message at Jan 15, 2007 around 09:29

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